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Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...

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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by pappilon   » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:48 pm

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[quote="kzt"
Plant the weapon ahead of time with remote command detonation and antitamper fuzing. With a backup option to simply destroy it in place.[/quote]


What Zilwicki did or did not do falls into the morally ambiguous area of operational necessity. No one in the GA will fault or even question what he did during his operation. He went where he went did what he did and returned with considerable intelligence. And on his own authority as the spy-in-chief of Torch. Only Mesa has made him the villain, and at this point it is a moot point.
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The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by pappilon   » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:59 pm

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Joat42 wrote: Your missing the point entirely. If a clear Eridani Edict violation happen don't you think the League members would clamor for an investigation?

And it doesn't matter WHO did the violation, but from the MAligns standpoint any League investigation into violations of the Eridani Edict that MAlign initiated is a bad thing since it spreads the awareness there is an unknown entity around that isn't afraid of the SLN or any repercussions from violations.

The Leagues response to the attacks has mostly been so far 'Meh.. Neobarb infighting..'. The MAlign doesn't want that to be 'Someone is going around violating the Eridani Edict among the neobarbs, we better look into it.'

The end result could be that the League starts looking into things the MAlign would rather not the League take seriously because there is a slim chance it could galvanize the League to pull together or at least making more members sit up and take notice that things are going to shit.


I think we're talking past each other. Sure, the Solarian League investigates. They show up at Manticore with -what- a dozen SDs waving a white flag to "investigate the EEE violations"? Yeah, Elizabeth is going to laugh her ... treecat off her shoulder at that one.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume she agrees. What do they find? Mostly the state of Manticore's defences, the numbers and classes of war ships in orbit, theories(wacky theories) of some Mesan Alignment. Proof? Actual pieces of missiles, or debris of invading ships? Maybe all those drones and whatever they assembled? I don't think so. They have absolute confidence that the SLN will not bother to investigate because they have so compromised its ability to do ... pretty much anything. AND its next on the MAlign's hit list.

If anything they have too much respect for Manticore's ONI to give it any more reason to come looking for it. Not that it needs more reason at this point.
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The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by kzt   » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:34 pm

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Joat42 wrote:I would say the reasoning behind not to cross the line into Eridani Edict violations was more of the kind 'don't stir up the bear that sleeps' because if there would have been clear Eridani Edict violations the League members would most likely start an investigation to find the violators - which isn't what the MAlign really wanted.

David has said very clearly it was the assumption that eventually people would prove who did it, and even years later it would be such a black mark against the MA that they were unwilling to do that.

http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/271/0
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Joat42   » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:41 am

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kzt wrote:
Joat42 wrote:I would say the reasoning behind not to cross the line into Eridani Edict violations was more of the kind 'don't stir up the bear that sleeps' because if there would have been clear Eridani Edict violations the League members would most likely start an investigation to find the violators - which isn't what the MAlign really wanted.

David has said very clearly it was the assumption that eventually people would prove who did it, and even years later it would be such a black mark against the MA that they were unwilling to do that.

http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/271/0

Uhm, that's more or less what I said. The MAlign is not against using EE violations to further their plans if they can get away with it, the link you provided even says so.
runsforcelery wrote:This means that for planet-killing to work as a part of the Alignment's long-term strategy, it would have to accomplish some critical goal without starting to point fingers in the direction of a vast, secret conspiracy. And it would have to do that within an effective time frame -- that is, the desired outcome of a particular planet would have to come to fruition within a time window which would permit the Alignment to fully accomplish its long-term strategy. And that goal would have to be such that no one else would have the power/capabilities/opportunity to do to the Alignment what it had already done to someone else. Because, if the Alignment doesn't accomplish its long-term strategy before the rest of the galaxy starts figuring out who was responsible for it, then the Alignment is toast. There are very few things as likely to put together a huge alliance of otherwise potentially mutually hostile powers than the suspicion that someone is going around destroying entire planetary populations.

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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by kzt   » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:13 am

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Joat42 wrote:Uhm, that's more or less what I said. The MAlign is not against using EE violations to further their plans if they can get away with it.

Yes, but it helps if the author shares your opinion as to why his characters did something. And now you know he does.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by ldwechsler   » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:53 pm

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kzt wrote:
Joat42 wrote:Uhm, that's more or less what I said. The MAlign is not against using EE violations to further their plans if they can get away with it.

Yes, but it helps if the author shares your opinion as to why his characters did something. And now you know he does.



But I would guess the Mandarins are not stupid enough to plan something like that. Of course, that doesn't mean there might not be finagling.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Joat42   » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:57 pm

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kzt wrote:
Joat42 wrote:Uhm, that's more or less what I said. The MAlign is not against using EE violations to further their plans if they can get away with it.

Yes, but it helps if the author shares your opinion as to why his characters did something. And now you know he does.

ldwechsler wrote:But I would guess the Mandarins are not stupid enough to plan something like that. Of course, that doesn't mean there might not be finagling.

No, but how much do you want to bet that the attack on Beowulf the Mandarins and the SLN are planning is going to have unintended consequences, like cataphracts "going off course" and hitting population centers on the planet?

It's not like the MAlign have their tentacles into Technodyne who makes the missiles or that they hate Beowulf...

---
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Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Bluesqueak   » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:00 pm

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kzt wrote:
Bluesqueak wrote:So what, please, was he supposed to do - that would not result in the failure of his mission - given that he argued against the use of nukes, didn't assign David Pritchard, and finally asked that the nuke not be set off at all?

Why are people placing the brunt of the blame on the technical advisor? Is it simply too boring to admit that most of the blame lies with the minor characters?

There is plenty of blame to go around. His unwillingness to make waves was yet another cause. "I was only obeying orders" is generally not accepted as an excuse for mass murder.


Surely the entire episode of Green Pines results from someone disobeying orders?
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Fox2!   » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:36 pm

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Bluesqueak wrote:Surely the entire episode of Green Pines results from someone disobeying orders?


If not disobeying orders, at least ignoring the Technical Advisor's intent.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by kzt   » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:02 pm

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Joat42 wrote:No, but how much do you want to bet that the attack on Beowulf the Mandarins and the SLN are planning is going to have unintended consequences, like cataphracts "going off course" and hitting population centers on the planet?

It's not like the MAlign have their tentacles into Technodyne who makes the missiles or that they hate Beowulf...

I would be shocked, just shocked at that turn of events.
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