Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...

Brigade XO wrote:Even if there was a with the lab in the Manticore system, the question of where and how a person (or any sublight ship) would be getting back and forth to it. If it was something stealthed OUTSIDE the hyperlimit, there is going to a lot of interest in why something with an impeller is wandering around out there- coming from inside the system or to/from a ship entering/leaving the system.

Freighter in orbit or docked at a station would be much easier and not draw so much attention though it's crew or passengers would have to pass though whatever security is set up for these things. Think comming into a country via an airport or ship terminal. A private yacht would also work. The questions with either a transport or yacht would be level of customs inspection and security access to either a station or ground.

Weird Harold wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:For something that HAS to be a great secret, having it done on Manticore would probably be an unacceptable risk.

The lab work probably wasn't done on Manticore. That doesn't preclude it being done in the Manticore system. A ship with diplomatic immunity or lying doggo in the outer system would do fine for a secret lab location; if it is outside the hyper-limit it is almost interception proof and a self-destruct takes care of the possibility of capture anywhere.

A "news-corp" dispatch boat probably has enough space for the lab, even with a Streak Drive's space requirement. A tramp freighter outside the hyper-limit would even have room for all sorts of muscle memory training.

FWIW, it doesn't seem to me that the muscle-memory training can be done with the victim's DNA directly. The muscle memory training could be done by anyone, anywhere and passed off as rehearsals for a drama. The participants don't even need to know the target or any other part of the plan; "accidents" could be arranged if necessary.

Loren Pechtel wrote:

Brigade XO wrote:Even if there was a with the lab in the Manticore system, the question of where and how a person (or any sublight ship) would be getting back and forth to it. If it was something stealthed OUTSIDE the hyperlimit, there is going to a lot of interest in why something with an impeller is wandering around out there- coming from inside the system or to/from a ship entering/leaving the system.

Freighter in orbit or docked at a station would be much easier and not draw so much attention though it's crew or passengers would have to pass though whatever security is set up for these things. Think comming into a country via an airport or ship terminal. A private yacht would also work. The questions with either a transport or yacht would be level of customs inspection and security access to either a station or ground.

No problem:

You need two identical freighters plus the lab ship. You start with the lab ship and a freighter parked near a shipping lane but a light year out.

The second freighter uses the same shipping lane, drops out at the closest approach to the lab--the twin is waiting there and enters hyper when it sees the first one drop out and carries on it's voyage.

It's far enough out the hyper translations and wedges won't be seen but a light year isn't that long in travel time.

Weird Harold wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:For something that HAS to be a great secret, having it done on Manticore would probably be an unacceptable risk.

The lab work probably wasn't done on Manticore. That doesn't preclude it being done in the Manticore system. A ship with diplomatic immunity or lying doggo in the outer system would do fine for a secret lab location; if it is outside the hyper-limit it is almost interception proof and a self-destruct takes care of the possibility of capture anywhere.

A "news-corp" dispatch boat probably has enough space for the lab, even with a Streak Drive's space requirement. A tramp freighter outside the hyper-limit would even have room for all sorts of muscle memory training.

FWIW, it doesn't seem to me that the muscle-memory training can be done with the victim's DNA directly. The muscle memory training could be done by anyone, anywhere and passed off as rehearsals for a drama. The participants don't even need to know the target or any other part of the plan; "accidents" could be arranged if necessary.

ldwechsler wrote:Again, extreme danger. Not many diplomatic immunity ships. The only likely ones would be from the Sollies. Same for newsies. All it would take is one person leaking to the Manties and they would have everything they need.

Of course, doing it on a planet that is a junction jump away might work pretty well.

Actually, the whole methodology seems preposterous. Somehow you will do something if certain conditions exist? Sounds awfully difficult to pull off.

What would have happened if Honor had stepped into an elevator just as her aide grabbed a gun and was no longer a target. What could he answer when the gun was taken away?

Even more to the point, what would have happened if someone had grabbed the guy while it was going on? Talk about revealing a whole ploy.

Brigade XO wrote:Using the Beowulf Embassy for a nanite weapon production against Manticore would presuppose all sorts of penetratration of Beowulf's diplomatic core or it's embasy staff at a very high scientifc capability level. Not likely or the Alignment would be likely getting all sorts of information about Beowulf's plans, intents, capabilities etc.

Even if there was a with the lab in the Manticore system, the question of where and how a person (or any sublight ship) would be getting back and forth to it. If it was something stealthed OUTSIDE the hyperlimit, there is going to a lot of interest in why something with an impeller is wandering around out there- coming from inside the system or to/from a ship entering/leaving the system.

Freighter in orbit or docked at a station would be much easier and not draw so much attention though it's crew or passengers would have to pass though whatever security is set up for these things. Think comming into a country via an airport or ship terminal. A private yacht would also work. The questions with either a transport or yacht would be level of customs inspection and security access to either a station or ground.

I probably is easier for someone to purchase the equipment, materials, supplies etc and create a (relatively) small & secure secret lab on Manticore than to do the work in orbit and have to have your agents travel back and forth off planet. Use the example of a Meth lab in present day.....apparently people create these all the time in ways that law enfrocement can't track or identify and they don't usually get discovered until there is either leads from other things like arresting or tracking people involved or somebody sees something odd - or the lab has a catastrophic accident. We have seen this weapon being used on Earth (the Haven Ambasador's driver- the head of the SLN), in the Aldermani Empire (attcking a member of the Imperial Family), on Haven and on Manticore though the person was triggered on a warship in orbit. Then there was the setting up Filerta's staff officer and we don't really know where he had been when he was infected.
You could have a lab (and people needed to do the full work) set up and then taken apart and discarded/destroyed at the component part level quietly. You probably (even the Alignment) would want the people extracted -also quietly-. If nobody is looking for them due to lack of connection to any problem it's tought to catch someone who's only incriminating evidence is in their head.

Eagleeye wrote:

Brigade XO wrote:If you are the Alignment, you probably aren't going to want to have some agent or stooge collect a sample of DNA, SHIP IT to Mesa (or espeicialy Darius) and then send back the tailored nanite by a similar route to infect the target.

Much more likely that you have some sort of kit or mini-lab which you would have to either earlier hidden on your target's planet or in a ship in orbit. Of course that means that the lab would be vulnerable to either detection while in transit to or on the planet or could be compromised and captured on the ground or with said ship.

We're talking about Manticore here, people. In other words - a nation with a medical establishment, second (and that only by a very tight margin) only to Beowulf and Mesa itself. You don't need to import your tools - you can buy or lease them locally and hide your papertrail as deep as you want.

cthia wrote:

Eagleeye wrote:We're talking about Manticore here, people. In other words - a nation with a medical establishment, second (and that only by a very tight margin) only to Beowulf and Mesa itself. You don't need to import your tools - you can buy or lease them locally and hide your papertrail as deep as you want.

Quite possible. OTOH, you could be jumping the gun on the hardware needed. It could be something not "on the shelves," something of a totally proprietary Malign design.

Honestly, I never saw the programming of the nanites to be a problem, after all I thought, they are simply computer circuitry at the sub atomic level?

I think the lab could be very compact and set up on planet. Or certainly assembled from compact sources.

Ships in space are very visible moving parts.

Brigade XO wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:Not to mention that it might be used as a boomerang. If Manticore got the secret, there could be people used not to kill necessarily but to be spies, writing down information that could be used.