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Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...

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Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:26 am

cthia
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yet, not so infrastructurally destructive.

This is the most unheard of thing you can imagine. As always, it was found floating around somewhere in my head. I didn't put it there, I swear. No more than any of the other excrement. Yet I'm always the one being blamed when these sordid sorties of "excremental trajectories" hit the fan. I say excrement, because I'm told that is the "proper" accepted usage, and that it amounts to what it really is. Yet in all of my cases in court (family court, a thing of my parents where I was once sentenced for hanging; boys will be boys) it almost always, always turns to schit. The really stinky kind that sticks to your finger. This is no exception, as it is the only psychic ability I have — knowing full well when stinky excrement is about to be loosed because the telling whine of the turbine is about to hit critical.

What if there was an EE strike on Manticore? I know all of the arguments against why there wouldn't be, or gasp shouldn't be, yet what looks good on paper isn't always what happens in practice. I'm not concerned with who perpetrated this unspeakable tragedy. There are several factions I can think of with motive. We'll let that lie for the descendants of Perry Mason or Matlock. Or Columbo if we want to find them really quickly. It is the fallout that interests me. Not just any old fallout. But fallout of the really not-so-destructive yet quite catastrophic kind.

Let's say that Murphy's eyes are shining like the moon and he is in full swing. And the perpetrators of this crime pulled off the most successful EE violation that will ever hit mankind — a full decapitation of the current government of Manticore and every single successor in line. Even anyone remotely with a chance to succeed. Some event that put all of the eggs and the chickens in one basket. Murphy in really rare form. Even cousins of cousins, babies, adoptees and every one down the line. Not a single drop of Winton blood can be found anywhere in the Honorverse or in any other relation by luck. Specifically, the perpetrators only planned the full Manticoran government's decapitation.

Even they didn't know they would truly hit the lottery—the biggest POWERBALL in history and they got a multiplier.

Yet, Honor Harrington lives. She was on Grayson. Would she become Queen of Manticore? Would such a full bodied decapitation capsize the planet? And would that mean that the Harrington line would displace the Winton line from that point on?

Talk about misaligning an entire star system(s) from a very aligned strike.

"We think big. We won't make the same mistake as the Havenites. We'll simply dismiss the current Queen, her entire government and the entire line of succession."

"You have done quite well Anisimovna. When we asked for your 'Operation Dismiss' you delivered. You're beginning to frighten us."

Anisimovna, "Oops."


.
Last edited by cthia on Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:41 am, edited 3 times in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Duckk   » Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:48 am

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Any such strike that would get the entire Winton line (ignoring how they would even get to Mike Henke) would also certainly eliminate the entire national government and administrating apparatus. There would be no one left with the authority to hold a plebiscite to arrange a new line of succession, nor run all the systems to keep the national government running without interruption. Effectively, the Star Empire would cease to exist as a nation for any short and intermediate term. They could probably arrange something given enough time, but external factors probably wouldn't give them that time.

Second, Honor has no more claim than anyone else on the throne in such a case. In fact, as one of the newest duchies, she would have the weakest claim. The Grand Dukes/Duchesses of Manticore, Sphinx, and Gryphon would be the most likely candidates, as they're the next highest nobles after the royal family. How that would ultimately work out is beyond what any of us can say.
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Re: Eridani Edict of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:02 am

cthia
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Duckk wrote:Any such strike that would get the entire Winton line (ignoring how they would even get to Mike Henke) would also certainly eliminate the entire national government and administrating apparatus. There would be no one left with the authority to hold a plebiscite to arrange a new line of succession, nor run all the systems to keep the national government running without interruption. Effectively, the Star Empire would cease to exist as a nation for any short and intermediate term. They could probably arrange something given enough time, but external factors probably wouldn't give them that time.

Second, Honor has no more claim than anyone else on the throne in such a case. In fact, as one of the newest duchies, she would have the weakest claim. The Grand Dukes/Duchesses of Manticore, Sphinx, and Gryphon would be the most likely candidates, as they're the next highest nobles after the royal family. How that would ultimately work out is beyond what any of us can say.
My bold to call attention.

All gone, due to an unusual but rather important gathering at Mount Royal Palace -- that's also quite gone.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Duckk   » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:21 am

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So you're positing that literally everyone is gone except for Honor? How is this an interesting question then? If literally the entire government disappears, it's anarchy, pure and simple.
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Shields at 50%, taunting at 100%! - Tom Pope
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:33 pm

cthia
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Duckk wrote:So you're positing that literally everyone is gone except for Honor? How this an interesting question then? If literally the entire government disappears, it's anarchy, pure and simple.

How would this be interesting? You have got to be kidding or are patient Zero of the dreaded "can't can't" disease named after its discoverer, the Red Baron. (Thanks for tainting the pool.)

Yet, this possibility is the reality of such a thing as an Eridani violation in the Honorverse. We have always overlooked such a catastrophic cost in key figures rather than incidental lives, infrastructure and ships.

Technological advancements further catastrophic ramifications. There was once a mass exodus of my family members overseas to a particular event. It was planned for all of us to fly in two separate jets. Someone suggested that we spread it out even further.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Duckk   » Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:46 pm

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*sigh*

My point was that it's a pretty pointless thought experiment if you restrict the possible outcomes to exactly one. "Pick a card, any card (except I threw out every card aside from the jokers)." If you're positing that literally everyone in the government is dead except for Honor, then what exactly do you want us to discuss? If literally everyone in the government is dead, then society collapses as everything the government managed - fiscal policy, farming subsidies, health services, everything - completely implodes. The Star Empire as we know would cease to exist.
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Shields at 50%, taunting at 100%! - Tom Pope
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:57 pm

cthia
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Duckk wrote:*sigh*

My point was that it's a pretty pointless thought experiment if you restrict the possible outcomes to exactly one. "Pick a card, any card (except I threw out every card aside from the jokers)." If you're positing that literally everyone in the government is dead except for Honor, then what exactly do you want us to discuss? If literally everyone in the government is dead, then society collapses as everything the government managed - fiscal policy, farming subsidies, health services, everything - completely implodes. The Star Empire as we know would cease to exist.

Me own *sigh*

Certainly not surely die.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by crewdude48   » Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:12 pm

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There is no way to do what you want and still leave Manticore a Star nation. Considering the level of technology and record keeping they have had since the formation of the Kingdom, they would be able to track down that accountant on Beowoulf who is Elizabeth's 14th cousin twice removed. (Ever seen King Ralph?)

Furthermore, considering that they have been at war, or preparing for war, for as long as they have been, they most likely fallow something similar to the "designated survivor" protocols that the US government fallows.

Assuming that Honor is the only survivor of every title of nobility, she could probably assert a claim of Queen, but the level of devastation required to get to that means that her subjects would be only a few thousand battered and dying people.
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Re: Eridani Edict of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:39 pm

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cthia wrote:All gone, due to an unusual but rather important gathering at Mount Royal Palace -- that's also quite gone.


May I point out the standard tactic of the designated survivor? You always make sure that somebody in the line of succession is far away from any such event.

(Yes, there is a TV show on with this as a name. The show is named after the concept, I'm not basing this on the show. In fact, the show got it wrong--he shouldn't have been in Washington, period.)
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Potato   » Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:47 pm

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Loren Pechtel wrote:May I point out the standard tactic of the designated survivor? You always make sure that somebody in the line of succession is far away from any such event.

(Yes, there is a TV show on with this as a name. The show is named after the concept, I'm not basing this on the show. In fact, the show got it wrong--he shouldn't have been in Washington, period.)


I think that is the nub with all the objections. For example, Mike Henke is hundreds of light years away, and no prospect of immediate return to the Home System. So already, this scenario is on shaky ground.

Even supposing she is in system, there are simply too many branches of the government and dynasty that would be elsewhere at any given time. The grand dukes, MPs and Lords, and various branches of the Winton Dynasty would be scattered everywhere. And that is just political figures. Such an attack would also have to eliminate the military chain of command if it tried to restore order. To completely destroy all centers authority like what cthia is proposing would require unleashing so much firepower at so many targets that the Home System would be eliminated.
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