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Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...

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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:02 pm

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crewdude48 wrote:Let us do some math here. There have been 16 monarchs of the Kingdom. That means 15 generations have been born into the line of succession. Considering that it is a mostly open frontierish world, I feel we would be extremely safe assuming a birthrate of 2.5 children per couple. It is probably higher, but lets stick with that. 15^2.5=871.4

That means that there are, in this generation alone over eight hundred people somewhere in the line for the throne. Plus any parents or grandparents still alive would, with out a doubt, bump us up over a thousand.

Then we have the three Grand Duchies who would out rank Honor. According to the Wiki there are 14 more Duchies mentioned in the books that would all out rank Duchy Harrington. One of these is a life title, and one more basically runs in the Winton family. That leaves 12. Even if we assume that half of those were life titles or have merged into other titles, it still leaves us with nine titles that outrank Honor's, and would be more likely to be picked as a new monarch.

Even if we reduce the number of people in those lines to 500 to account for overlap, that is another 4500 people who would be senior to Honor. So this party of yours has over 5500 people, and my numbers are almost with out a doubt on the low side. That is the entire crew of a US Navy nuclear aircraft carrier, including air wing. It is going to include Queens and princes, accountants and lawers, sailors, factory workers, petty criminals, a payed duelist until recently, even people who's families have left the system generations ago. And EVERY SINGLE ONE HAS TO BE THERE! Not. Going. To. Happen.

Interesting. Around 5500 people. About the population and the area of a small college. Say Wake Forest University of approximately 5000 students over some 600 acres. And an event that never fails to bring almost all of them home and even many of the others from past years decades ago are "Homecomings." Where many other family members, past alumni, faculty and staff alike are present as well. The sentimentality of the human element, doing the heavy lifting for.

Aldona Anisimovna is a master of the human element and she uses a freaking fulcrum.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Potato   » Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:22 pm

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And when was the last time you had 5500 of your relatives over, hmm? Hell, when have you had even one-tenth of that? How oblivious can you be? This is just like your silly "pirate battlecruiser" topic! No one in the world makes plans like this.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:27 pm

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Potato wrote:And when was the last time you had 5500 of your relatives over, hmm? Hell, when have you had even one-tenth of that? How oblivious can you be? This is just like your silly "pirate battlecruiser" topic! No one in the world makes plans like this.

If they were relatives like you, I didn't.

I'll just consider the source.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:23 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:Referring to the premise of the thread as bullshit does not represent "a modicum of decorum" yet has thus far failed to bring out the Duckk.


That doesn't change the fact that your initial premise is implausible to the Nth degree. There is no way to bring about your stated result without destroying nearly the entire population of the Old Kingdom, including all of the Nobility in the RMN, RMMC, Merchant Marine, Army, Diplomatic Corps, and every other off-planet vocation or avocation.

Yet, what is implausible to the Nth degree? The Battle of Manticore? The Second Battle of Manticore? The ridiculously hellish number of missiles being tossed around? A secret cabal existing for centuries? The Kingdom of Torch?

What is implausible to the Nth degree today is not implausible to the Nth degree tomorrow. Besides, the Nth degree is in the eye of the beholder.

Because it isn't in your eye doesn't mean it isn't in someone else's, who'll beat you to it, then beat you with it.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Annachie   » Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:36 pm

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Please, we're talking about the MAlign.
It will be targeted nanotec.

Whatever, it beats threads on how to use the Grav Lance.


By now, surely the other grand duchies are held by members of the winton family, probably the Lords as well, and it's been stated that Honor takes precedence over everybody else.


If Honor did take over and become Queen it would be because she personally and visibly kept the government running.

The firm hand at the wheel becomming the defacto ruling hand as it were.

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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:39 pm

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Annachie wrote:...it's been stated that Honor takes precedence over everybody else....


Social precedence, or Military rank for that matter, is NOT the same as precedence in Succession Of The Crown.

Honor would be my first choice for a Regency or head of a regency council, but that Archetypal Yeoman, Klaus Hauptman, probably has more royal precedence in the line of succession than Honor does.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by munroburton   » Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:22 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
Annachie wrote:...it's been stated that Honor takes precedence over everybody else....


Social precedence, or Military rank for that matter, is NOT the same as precedence in Succession Of The Crown.

Honor would be my first choice for a Regency or head of a regency council, but that Archetypal Yeoman, Klaus Hauptman, probably has more royal precedence in the line of succession than Honor does.


HoS:
When the Constitution was adopted, converting shareholders into peers of the realm, the membership of the House of Lords was fixed at fifty, with seats granted based on the order in which the original colonists had invested in the expedition. That is, a “baron” who had been among the very early investors (or whose parent or grandparent had been) would be seated in the Lords in preference to a “duke” whose investment had come later. This rule of seniority within the Lords continues to this day, which helps to explain the influence of Michael Janvier, who was “merely” Baron of High Ridge but whose direct ancestor had been only the sixth individual to invest in the colony expedition. In the years since the founding, the number of seats in both the Lords and the Commons have been adjusted several times to reflect the SKM’s growing population base, but even today, not all peers hold seats in the House of Lords, by any means.


I believe the reference to Honor taking precedence over everyone else applies only to the new Imperial Parliament - IIRC, she was something like the first or third ducal appointment to that body.

The old rules would still apply to the succession - which, as Weird Harold pointed out, is different from the order of precedence.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Bill Woods   » Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:30 pm

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crewdude48 wrote:Let us do some math here. There have been 16 monarchs of the Kingdom. That means 15 generations have been born into the line of succession. Considering that it is a mostly open frontierish world, I feel we would be extremely safe assuming a birthrate of 2.5 children per couple. It is probably higher, but lets stick with that. 15^2.5=871.4

That means that there are, in this generation alone over eight hundred people somewhere in the line for the throne. Plus any parents or grandparents still alive would, with out a doubt, bump us up over a thousand.
For a real-world comparison, take the line of succession to the British throne, which comprises the legitimate, non-Catholic descendants of Electress Sophia of Hanover (1630–1714).
No official, complete version of the line of succession is currently maintained. The exact number, in remoter collateral lines, of the persons who would be eligible is uncertain. In 2001 genealogist William Addams Reitwiesner compiled a list of 4,973 living descendants of the Electress Sophia in order of succession, but disregarding Roman Catholic status.[5] When updated in January 2011, the number was more than five thousand.[6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Successio ... ish_throne
Wikipedia tried to maintain a list, but gave up. Last version: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =428696922
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Imagined conversation:
Admiral [noting yet another Manty tech surprise]:
XO, what's the budget for the ONI?
Vice Admiral: I don't recall exactly, sir. Several billion quatloos.
Admiral: ... What do you suppose they did with all that money?
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Potato   » Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:01 pm

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munroburton wrote:I believe the reference to Honor taking precedence over everyone else applies only to the new Imperial Parliament - IIRC, she was something like the first or third ducal appointment to that body.

The old rules would still apply to the succession - which, as Weird Harold pointed out, is different from the order of precedence.


Honor takes precedence over most of the Lords due to her being a Steadholder. This was mentioned as far back as The Short Victorious War.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:31 pm

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munroburton wrote:I believe the reference to Honor taking precedence over everyone else applies only to the new Imperial Parliament - IIRC, she was something like the first or third ducal appointment to that body.


The reference I know of came before the discovery of the Lynx terminus:

"Your Grace," he said, holding out his hand, and she hid a small smile as she crossed the bright, wood-paneled office to take it. The protocol was just a bit complicated, and she wondered if Admiral Caparelli had consulted the experts on how to handle it or if he was simply feeling his way along as he went.

In every way but one—well, two, actually—she was now this man's superior. In Yeltsin, of course, where she was Steadholder Harrington, that had been true for years. But now she was Duchess Harrington here in the Star Kingdom, as well. Her good eye gleamed with pure, unadulterated gloating as she recalled the stifled expressions on quite a few noble lords and ladies as the woman they had excluded from their midst was seated among them as the most junior duchess of the Star Kingdom . . . who just happened to outrank ninety-plus percent of the rest of the peerage. Despite lingering doubts over the wisdom of creating her new title, she had to admit that the looks on the faces of Stefan Young, Twelfth Earl of North Hollow, and Michael Janvier, Ninth Baron of High Ridge, were going to remain two of her fondest memories when (or if) she reached her dotage.


But that ranking is social ranking, not Line of Succession ranking. I think part of the confusion may come from the USA's Designated Survivor Line of Succession which is based on "Office Held" rather than "Blood Inheritance" as Royal Succession usually is.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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