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Hacking 2000 years from now...

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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by cthia   » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:01 pm

cthia
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Joat42 wrote:

If you read the article it says that the Kaspersky AV was exploited. Since you seems so sure, you do have all the facts - right? Not jumping to any conclusions - right?


<He does not see because he is blind. He is blind because he does not see. Yet he has eyes. He is mind blind.>

Let's see... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by Joat42   » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:00 pm

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Joat42 wrote:

If you read the article it says that the Kaspersky AV was exploited. Since you seems so sure, you do have all the facts - right? Not jumping to any conclusions - right?
cthia wrote:<He does not see because he is blind. He is blind because he does not see. Yet he has eyes. He is mind blind.>

Let's see... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Which is a typical cop out answer in which you say 'I'm right and no matter facts there is I'm still right'. How very adult of you...

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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by Relax   » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:24 pm

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Anyone not using an air gap on any sensitive info is an idiot, no matter what encyrption is being used because if they have backdoor access, they do, then they just dump a keystroke logger on your machine, and encryption doesn't matter at all.

Anyone doing over the internet banking is likewise an idiot, unless whatever account is allowed to be accessed via the internet you do not care about. Likewise anyone linking bank accounts is also an idiot as any error will drain all of the linked accounts. That saved my ass a few years back due to identity theft. Also, use multiple banks. That way when one bank reaches in and grabs $$$ for bogus fees etc, you aren't screwed.

The digital age is nice in some regards, but in terms of banking and big brother being able to destroy innocent people without recourse, recompense, it is NOT a good thing. It allows tinpot authoritarian totalitarian governments to easily crack down. They will soon move to outlaw the trading of physical gold. You can.... wait for it... bank on it.
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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by kzt   » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:16 pm

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It’s virtually impossible to actually air gap systems. And if you do it doesn’t actually help much. You can see this in a few high profile espionage cases where data was removed from the system by the last 3 NSA spies and the whack job in Iraq.

But it’s rediculously expensive to run an air gapped system securely. Everything needs to be dedicated and support is a nightmare. Basically it’s only doable for governments, and even they don’t do it well. See above.
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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by Relax   » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:25 pm

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kzt wrote:It’s virtually impossible to actually air gap systems. And if you do it doesn’t actually help much. You can see this in a few high profile espionage cases where data was removed from the system by the last 3 NSA spies and the whack job in Iraq.

But it’s rediculously expensive to run an air gapped system securely. Everything needs to be dedicated and support is a nightmare. Basically it’s only doable for governments, and even they don’t do it well. See above.

Every real business runs an air gap system on critical data. Some Idiotic stupid businesses do not. Every business I have ever worked at other than one(dawn of the computer age) had such systems. Big and Small.

You had your test data/FEA/3d modeling/finance systems air gapped and then you had your everyday run of the mill computers where idiots have email, health insurance sign up, news, Office programs, etc.

Physical presence required to bridge the air gap means the ability to steal said info drops drastically. Now, HOW you secure the air gap from the ol' HUMINT, that is the problem.

Support is hard? What are you smoking? I see you have never worked in such an environment. You just never update the systems. You set it up, and never touch them. Any problems? You just reghost the standard which only changes when you replace all the computers and software. Oh yea, the computers run forever because all the updates and crap doesn't load up the computers. You also don't have some stupid ignorant pimple faced power hungry network asshole trying to ram down their authoritarian BS on these separate machines as they DO NOT HAVE ACCESS to them! That access falls into the hands of those people who can rub two brain cells together and give access via trust of who has worked for a long time etc.

I have never worked for the ol' government, so, if they tried an air gap, since the ol' government sucks at everything, I am sure they would suck ass at an air gap solution as well.

This won't change in 2000 years.
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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by cthia   » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:43 pm

cthia
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Relax wrote:
kzt wrote:It’s virtually impossible to actually air gap systems. And if you do it doesn’t actually help much. You can see this in a few high profile espionage cases where data was removed from the system by the last 3 NSA spies and the whack job in Iraq.

But it’s rediculously expensive to run an air gapped system securely. Everything needs to be dedicated and support is a nightmare. Basically it’s only doable for governments, and even they don’t do it well. See above.

Every real business runs an air gap system on critical data. Some Idiotic stupid businesses do not. Every business I have ever worked at other than one(dawn of the computer age) had such systems. Big and Small.

You had your test data/FEA/3d modeling/finance systems air gapped and then you had your everyday run of the mill computers where idiots have email, health insurance sign up, news, Office programs, etc.

Physical presence required to bridge the air gap means the ability to steal said info drops drastically. Now, HOW you secure the air gap from the ol' HUMINT, that is the problem.

Support is hard? What are you smoking? I see you have never worked in such an environment. You just never update the systems. You set it up, and never touch them. Any problems? You just reghost the standard which only changes when you replace all the computers and software. Oh yea, the computers run forever because all the updates and crap doesn't load up the computers. You also don't have some stupid ignorant pimple faced power hungry network asshole trying to ram down their authoritarian BS on these separate machines as they DO NOT HAVE ACCESS to them! That access falls into the hands of those people who can rub two brain cells together and give access via trust of who has worked for a long time etc.

I have never worked for the ol' government, so, if they tried an air gap, since the ol' government sucks at everything, I am sure they would suck ass at an air gap solution as well.

This won't change in 2000 years.


Absolutely, big businesses have to air gap. They all do. Certainly all of those I've worked for in the Valley. It is a necessity when there is critical information involved. All of the companies I worked for in Silicon Valley did it eons ago. I do it myself at home. I have several Linux computers that are completely cut off from the internet. They are dedicated systems. I built them myself with no internet or bluetooth capability. My Cray is not connected to the net. I do not share thumb drives between the computers. Common safety etiquette.

Air gapping is why some people are still running Windows 98 SE. Or XP, etc. Because once you get your dedicated computer system set up and running like you want it to, you shut it off from the net and don't update it. Why fix what ain't broke? Especially when Microshaft updates oftentimes break shit!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by kzt   » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:08 pm

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Relax wrote:Every real business runs an air gap system on critical data. Some Idiotic stupid businesses do not. Every business I have ever worked at other than one(dawn of the computer age) had such systems. Big and Small.

You had your test data/FEA/3d modeling/finance systems air gapped and then you had your everyday run of the mill computers where idiots have email, health insurance sign up, news, Office programs, etc.

We have one air gapped system. It’s the pediatric abduction security system. The only outside connection is an alarm contact, because the OS security is a joke. Every few years they forget why it’s air gapped and want us to set up remote access for the vendor when it breaks or they want a new capability. And then they whine a lot.

But in a larger multi-site organizations people in multiple locations want to get into your data on your really critical systems because that’s why they exist, so people can make use of the data. It’s not impossible, but it’s a huge pain. Separate switches, seperate cabling, seperate routers, hardware inline encryption, separate IT spaces, it’s not trivial, cheap or easy. And then you have arrogant entitled people like Felonia von Pantsuit who copied data from JWICS and pasting it into her unsecured email and mailed it to her maid over the internet to print out at her house because rules and laws are for the little people.
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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by Relax   » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:38 pm

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Yup, there are always entiled asses. Reminds me of a boss who took classified presentation(black) to the Paris Air Show on his laptop.... naturally it was stolen... The "secretary" took the fall..... She got PPAAIIDD with the sweetest deal ever.

The only reason the jack ass didn't go to jail(He was looking at 5 years) was because the presentation only had partial information and as is typical in high end presentations, the R&D engineers had the typical foresight to not post in the real data, but rather the very conservative, truncated information for mr. entitled jack ass with an MBA...

EDIT previous post: I did briefly work for another company who did not have an air gap, they were a small engineering firm(contract)
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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by Theemile   » Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:05 am

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The last company I was at, manufacturing was air-gapped from the business LAN and internet. They didn't want some virus or patch glitch shutting down the manufacturing lines.

The bitch of it was the leaders wanted up to the minute reporting from ~200 plants around the world, and tie ins to SAP for order processing. So the production lines usually had 2 separate sensor systems, one for each side of the air gap, many times reporting the same data.
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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by Annachie   » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:56 am

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The days of call back security and dinky $1000.00 plastic calculators are long gone.
Though with mobiles the call back is kind of there.
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