| How big is a Graser Torpedo? | |
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by Lord Skimper
» Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:27 am
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Lord Skimper
Posts: 1736
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Manticore should be able to make a Graser Torpedo. A capacitor fed one shot Graser with Million plus Km range mixed with Apollo could be 'a game changer' eliminate half of the defensive ability of a ship.
It can't be too big, a Shrike displaces 4.5-5 thousand tons, carries 6-8 crew and CM, Missiles (LAC), PD, etc... and a Graser made for multiple firings. etc.... So how big is a Graser Torpedo? ________________________________________
Just don't ask what is in the protein bars. |
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by Duckk
» Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:29 am
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Duckk
Posts: 4200
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Quit making up your own numbers. We laid out the exact tonnages and dimensions of the Shrike in House of Steel.
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Shields at 50%, taunting at 100%! - Tom Pope |
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| Re: How big is a Graser Torpedo? | |
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by MuonNeutrino
» Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:41 am
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MuonNeutrino
Posts: 167
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Yeah, but we all know Skimper's not a big fan of reading, so he probably hasn't seen those numbers.
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MuonNeutrino Astronomer, teacher, gamer, and procrastinator extraordinaire |
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| Re: How big is a Graser Torpedo? | |
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by Jonathan_S
» Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:48 am
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Jonathan_S
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No, he's just got a hang-up on the fact that the new LACs are about 4.5 time more dense that starships. The great resizing re calibrated warship dimensions from their mass; using a constant density. The effect was that every warship had the same density. But a Shrike with the density of a normal, hyper-capable, warship would mass a minuscule 4,500 - 5,000 tons. Of course that's a lot like saying if a cat was a horse you could ride it; they're not the same thing so the comparison makes no sense. (Also there's no reason to believe that missiles or torpedoes happen to have the same density as either warships or LACs, so trying to apply the "displacement tonnage" of either to a missile or torpedo is also pointless. But ignoring that, what Skimper missed is that without the revolutionary Spider drive, a graser torp is near useless. It'll mass more than a recon drone, which means it'd be slower than one (so sub 10,000g rather than the near 50,000g of a long range missile) and be a much easier target for point defense to pick off when it tried to close to its effective range. Without the invisible drive to pull off the undetected approach it's vastly less likely to score a hit than the MAlign's graser torps. Much bigger, much more expensive, and more vulnerable than missiles. So what's the advantage for Manticore? |
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by Gun Boat Diplomacy
» Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:49 am
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Gun Boat Diplomacy
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ok, so he made up his own numbers for the LAC's.
but what about his question? how BIG are the missiles? |
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by Gun Boat Diplomacy
» Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:51 am
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Gun Boat Diplomacy
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hehe sorry your answer was quicker than my question
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| Re: How big is a Graser Torpedo? | |
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by Grashtel
» Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:32 pm
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Grashtel
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Larger than a Cataphract-C missile pod, probably in more than one dimension as they needed external launch racks rather than being able to be shoehorned into the Sharks' podbays. |
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| Re: How big is a Graser Torpedo? | |
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by Theemile
» Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:48 pm
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Theemile
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Right Grashtel, The Cataphract Cs are the Capitol version of the Cataphtact missile series. The 1900 Mk 19 Capitol missile (RMN) massed 130 tons, while the Mk 29 CM massed 12 tons, so we can assume Cataphract C probably masses between 140 and 145 tons each. If we assume that each launcher masses ONLY as much as the missile it launches, then the mass of the launchers and the missiles in a 10 missile pod would be 2800 tons, without taking into account structure, power systems, station keeping systems and com systems. so we could easily see a 3-4 Kton pod for the Cataphract Cs. And Graser Torp is considerably larger. Also, let's do the breakdown of what a Graser Torp is made of: 1 Light Cruiser Spinal Graser - We don't know the mass, but can suppose from other sources that it masses from 1-3 Ktons - so let's say 2 Ktons. 1 StarShip Fusion reactor - once again we don't know the mass, but we know fusion reactors and their fuel were the major portion of a conventional LAC's mass; so suppose it, and it's fuel mass ~5Ktons 1 Apollo level AI computer - once again NO Idea, but probably 30 or 40 tons 1 Sensor suite - a few tons 1 Spider drive - Probably a Kton or so, but we really don't know. 1 Insane stealth system - who knows So, Pretty much it's a just as a WAG - it's probably more than 5 Ktons, and probably less than a Shrike's 20Ktons. Most likely it is around the size of a conventional LAC (~10Ktons) to fit in the required systems. ******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships." |
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by Somtaaw
» Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:57 am
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Somtaaw
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You can cut the power systems by a lot, probably little more than capacitors. Remember, the RMN only managed to get fusion plants in their pods because they researched a whole next generation of miniaturization. Station keeping is also somewhere that would be either extremely bare bones, or practically non-existant other than what was necessary to orient the pod rapidly in a specific direction for launching. And lastly, the comm systems in the pods are going to be very little more than what's necessary to accept tactical fire control downloads, and a very light two-way link for readiness checks. Mesan scientists, while not suffering from the Not-Invented-Here syndrome of Solarians, don't have the full experience of being required to constantly upgrade their pod performance. These first missiles are going to be equivilent of the first gen RMN updated pods with the low mass grav launchers. Functional yes, but not refined over years of steady combat. I know you didn't account for any of that mass, but your WAG is probably fairly accurate because you were also excluding what the mass of systems that probably aren't included. Just helping to make sure we aren't giving too much benefit of not knowing to Mesan military equipment that's just copy-cat Haven Sector military equipment. |
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| Re: How big is a Graser Torpedo? | |
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by Lord Skimper
» Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:53 pm
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Lord Skimper
Posts: 1736
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Yeah but even you know and said, you screwed up the displacement tonnage of the Shrike in HoS. I mean if the Highlander is twice as long and a little bit wider and taller than the shrike it can't displace half as much as the shrike. Now the Highlander follows the other ships displacement formula, more or less but the Shrike does not. I asked previously if it had armour or was a weight vs displacement issue.... but you and RFC were adamant that LAC doesn't have any armour and had the same density as ships, and Mass was displacement not weight. So barring the Shrike having different dimensions as noted or a smaller Mass (Displacement Tonnage) It can't be twice as long as a Highlander, it would not fit in a C/LAC. I suppose it could be bigger around, about the size of the Roland, but that seems unlikely. Something 20 metres in diameter and basically cylindrical with taped ends, and pod like extensions. That is 60+ metres long displaces 4,500-5,500 tons, in alcohol or your 0.23 multiplier. Or the Highlander Displaces not 11,000 Tons but 40,000+ Tons. Now If that is the case I stand corrected. You can't, short of a Tardis, have it both ways. If 138 x 20+ x 23 metre Highlander LAC is 11,000 Tons the Shrike is 4.5-5.5 KTons. If the 63 x 20 x 21 metre Shrike LAC is 20,000 Tons, then the Highlander is 40,000+ Tons. And all the other ships are about 3.5-4 x the Displacement Tonnage noted. So which is it? ________________________________________
Just don't ask what is in the protein bars. |
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