"Obsolete SDs" Waste not...

Sigs wrote:And lastly, I doubt the concept of the SD(P) is going to remain a mystery, many will copy it quickly. The problem for them would be to get the technology to make an SD(P) a weapon to be feared. If you have only SLN level technology, building an SD(P) wouldn't give you that much of an advantage. So it would be best for the GA to be in the loop as much as they can with as many systems as they can in order to guide those systems but also to limit the potential surprises that come their way.

None of underlining tech of the SD(P)s is really secret. The biggest advantage the GA has is in the practical experience of designing and building of them.

For a thumb in the eye of the SLN is for Manticore to announce that all the captured SLN ships will be sold as scrap metal as they have no use for anything else.

Jonathan_S wrote:

Sigs wrote:And lastly, I doubt the concept of the SD(P) is going to remain a mystery, many will copy it quickly. The problem for them would be to get the technology to make an SD(P) a weapon to be feared. If you have only SLN level technology, building an SD(P) wouldn't give you that much of an advantage. So it would be best for the GA to be in the loop as much as they can with as many systems as they can in order to guide those systems but also to limit the potential surprises that come their way.

deoends on who you're looking for an advantage over. An SD(P) built with SLN baseline tech should be significantly more capable that a Scientist or Vega class SD. You can definitely cram more fire control and point defense mounts if you dial back on broadside tubes and beams. That'll let you throw a heavier salvos that even those old designs could with towed pods (they seem seriously deficient in fire control links) and keep firing them far longer.

You'd probably be worth 3-4 of them even with the same tech.

You'd still be pretty ineffective against even Erewhin, much less the GA. But an SD(P) design is probably well worth doing as a first home designed Waller even if you can't apply higher tech.

Not only would a SLN level SD(P) be useful against other SLN level entities, when you DO manage to develop viable multi-drive missiles it should be much easier/cheaper to change pod designs and pod rails than to retrofit the launchers in a standard SD, which somewhat future-proofs the design.

zyffyr wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:deoends on who you're looking for an advantage over. An SD(P) built with SLN baseline tech should be significantly more capable that a Scientist or Vega class SD. You can definitely cram more fire control and point defense mounts if you dial back on broadside tubes and beams. That'll let you throw a heavier salvos that even those old designs could with towed pods (they seem seriously deficient in fire control links) and keep firing them far longer.

You'd probably be worth 3-4 of them even with the same tech.

You'd still be pretty ineffective against even Erewhin, much less the GA. But an SD(P) design is probably well worth doing as a first home designed Waller even if you can't apply higher tech.

Not only would a SLN level SD(P) be useful against other SLN level entities, when you DO manage to develop viable multi-drive missiles it should be much easier/cheaper to change pod designs and pod rails than to retrofit the launchers in a standard SD, which somewhat future-proofs the design.

Have my doubts about how much rail redesign will be needed, but all other points are valid. I believe that several nations are designing cruise missiles with launch sleeve that fit inside a 40 ft shipping container.

Sigs wrote:Those SD's might be obsolete against the GA but they will not be obsolete against those who have less ships or no ships at all.

Again, against someone without wallers (or a non-trivial supply of missile pods), they're not needed and tremendous resource sinks that will only delay building a sustainable modern navy. Against someone with either, they're not good enough.

Use them to jumpstart the rebuilding of your space station infrastructure. Cut up and recycle the materials from the weapons to free up cubage/power/mass. Then space them apart and use their machine shops and recycled material to build spars to hold the hulls in place and spaced for additional systems or building slips to be assembled between the SD hulls. Voila, instant quarters, mess facilities, storage, machine shops, etc.

This has the benefit of leaving survivable chunks of infrastructure if Oyster Bay II: The Sequel happens and saves a lot of initial staging. Later on you can systematically recycle them as material demands and industrial capacity need/allow. Additionally, gutting them could allow for construction of factory ships/future station sections that you could send to Beowulf for refitting (missile production, anyone?) and then bring back to Manticore for inclusion in Vulcan II/Hephaestus II/Weyland II.

Given the state of manufacturing and resource processing in Manticore, setting the obsolete SDs up as factory/processing ships may be the best strategic use for them, even if they would be substandard designs compared to purpose built ships. Military sidewalls, radiation shielding, compensators, and the heavy armor would make an SD conversion to ore smelter or missile manufactory rather difficult to kill. Automate the defense systems to the extent practical, leave a graser or two, and then just laugh when some DDs come in raiding. They would run out of ammo before they killed much of your spaceborne infrastructure and have a really bad day when they came in close.

The league could sell to member defence fleets as well as useful allies. They would be huge investments just to make them battle ready, let alone modern standards. Having them as a frame work would be cheaper to construct them from scratch if they have limited facilities.

Ok, since everybody says there's no use for them and they should just be scrapped, I just thought of the PERFECT use.

FIRE SHIPS!!!!



Rig each of the SLN SD's up with remotes controlled from the AuxCon of an alliance ship and position them ahead of the alliance fleet as it heads into battle! As the enemy opens fire, roll them up to present their wedges as shields against that fire... and any ex-SLN SD's that survive the enemy fire, once close enough to the enemy fleet the alliance AuxCon can blow them up - possibly with augmented explosives - to at least damage if not destroy enemy ships.

RedBaron wrote:Ok, since everybody says there's no use for them and they should just be scrapped, I just thought of the PERFECT use.

FIRE SHIPS!!!!



Rig each of the SLN SD's up with remotes controlled from the AuxCon of an alliance ship and position them ahead of the alliance fleet as it heads into battle! As the enemy opens fire, roll them up to present their wedges as shields against that fire... and any ex-SLN SD's that survive the enemy fire, once close enough to the enemy fleet the alliance AuxCon can blow them up - possibly with augmented explosives - to at least damage if not destroy enemy ships.

Okay, but isn't that way slower than just blowing them away with Apollo pods?

Even if it's trivial to remote control the captured SDs they are slow. Like 1/2 the accel of a current RMN SD(P). Plus you have to pull enough maintenance to keep them operational for a multi-week minimum transit to the target system.

Sorry to rain on your parade but this seems like another idea that's technically possibly, but doesn't really solve a problem the GA has and is more work than just using what they already have.

RedBaron wrote:Ok, since everybody says there's no use for them and they should just be scrapped, I just thought of the PERFECT use.

FIRE SHIPS!!!!



Rig each of the SLN SD's up with remotes controlled from the AuxCon of an alliance ship and position them ahead of the alliance fleet as it heads into battle! As the enemy opens fire, roll them up to present their wedges as shields against that fire... and any ex-SLN SD's that survive the enemy fire, once close enough to the enemy fleet the alliance AuxCon can blow them up - possibly with augmented explosives - to at least damage if not destroy enemy ships.

So basically slow, inconvenient, not very effective, and probably expensive missiles then? MDMs are much faster, very good at killing SLN ships, don't need considerable work to refit them for remote control, don't need ferry crews to fly them to the battle, and waste only a tiny fraction of the valuable resources you could get from scrapping an SD.


You seem to keep confusing people there is no practical use for the captured SDs with them saying there is no use for the captured SDs. Imagine if a modern army captured thousands of WW1 era tanks, would they go through the cost and difficulty of turning them into something actually useful or would they just scrap/sell them like they are doing to much more capable but also obsolete stuff?

Grashtel wrote:

RedBaron wrote:Ok, since everybody says there's no use for them and they should just be scrapped, I just thought of the PERFECT use.

FIRE SHIPS!!!!



Rig each of the SLN SD's up with remotes controlled from the AuxCon of an alliance ship and position them ahead of the alliance fleet as it heads into battle! As the enemy opens fire, roll them up to present their wedges as shields against that fire... and any ex-SLN SD's that survive the enemy fire, once close enough to the enemy fleet the alliance AuxCon can blow them up - possibly with augmented explosives - to at least damage if not destroy enemy ships.

So basically slow, inconvenient, not very effective, and probably expensive missiles then? MDMs are much faster, very good at killing SLN ships, don't need considerable work to refit them for remote control, don't need ferry crews to fly them to the battle, and waste only a tiny fraction of the valuable resources you could get from scrapping an SD.


You seem to keep confusing people there is no practical use for the captured SDs with them saying there is no use for the captured SDs. Imagine if a modern army captured thousands of WW1 era tanks, would they go through the cost and difficulty of turning them into something actually useful or would they just scrap/sell them like they are doing to much more capable but also obsolete stuff?

And how much MORE effort would it take to scrap them versus using them as shield/fire ships?