Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 154 guests

New Mandarin Doctrine - a Deliverance

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: New Mandarin Doctrine - a Deliverance
Post by cthia   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:31 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

A bigger thought, as a reader, is what would this "no more unlikely as the forming of the GA" scenario do to the mindset and emotions of the MA? Would it send them reeling and force mistakes?

I would imagine some very lively expletives out of the mouths of the Onion and a paralyzing attack of the "guppy syndrome."

Guppy Syndrome: Coined by my young niece around age 12. It represents the inaudible opening and closing of the mouth out of total shock. :o ... :o ... :o


And again, there's the existence of that file room. Reminds me of the North Hollow files.

Of peripheral interest...
He stopped talking, and silence hovered in the records storage room for long, fragile seconds. Then Okiku shook her head.

“My God,” she said softly. “No wonder people think you’re a fucking lunatic! But you really could be right.” She shook her head again, her expression an odd mix of wonder and fear. “You could.”

“Believe me, there’s nothing I’d like better than to be wrong,” he told her equally softly.

“So why bring me in on it?” she asked after a moment. “Trust me, I’m not going to be thanking you for it. If there’s anything at all to this theory of yours, whoever the conspirators are—‘Mesan Alignment’ or someone else entirely—they sure as hell aren’t shy about killing people. I’d just as soon not give them a reason to add me to their list.”

“You and me both,” al-Fanudahi said feelingly.

-SNIP-

“You are so going to get all of us killed,” Okiku said grimly.

Just might force an MA mistake.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: New Mandarin Doctrine - a Deliverance
Post by Weird Harold   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:53 am

Weird Harold
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4478
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:25 pm
Location: "Lost Wages", NV

cthia wrote:Besides, wouldn't it take quite some time to get to the real root of the corruption - if ever - so wouldn't that buy time to upright the League?



Getting to "the real root of corruption" in the Solarian League is either going to start with evicting the Mandarins or rebound on the Mandarins when the corrupt officials being rooted out start naming names and amounts.

In the end, the Mandarins can choose to save the League or save themselves from prosecution. Which do you think they're going to choose? (Hint: the rumored ten-million dead in Beowulf when they vote to secede is going to play a big part in the decision.)
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
Top
Re: New Mandarin Doctrine - a Deliverance
Post by cthia   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:01 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:Besides, wouldn't it take quite some time to get to the real root of the corruption - if ever - so wouldn't that buy time to upright the League?



Getting to "the real root of corruption" in the Solarian League is either going to start with evicting the Mandarins or rebound on the Mandarins when the corrupt officials being rooted out start naming names and amounts.

In the end, the Mandarins can choose to save the League or save themselves from prosecution. Which do you think they're going to choose? (Hint: the rumored ten-million dead in Beowulf when they vote to secede is going to play a big part in the decision.)

True enough.

After all, self-preservation is the purest blood that is thicker than water.

However, Daud al-Fanudahi can start a snow balling effect that would have a life of its own, completely out of the hands of the Mandarins. Notwithstanding there being at least one Mandarin whose complicity cannot be proved.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: New Mandarin Doctrine - a Deliverance
Post by chrisd   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:48 am

chrisd
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:38 am
Location: North-East England (70%) and also Thailand (30%)

Why, just Why, would anyone WANT to save a "Mandarin"

Bureaucracy is the curse of our lives and anything bad that happens to a bureaucrat can only be of benefit to the human race.

Minimal, competent administration is needed but bureaucracy is "Anathema".


As an aside, where does the apparently derogatory "Five Mandarins" concept arise?
Top
Re: New Mandarin Doctrine - a Deliverance
Post by cthia   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:40 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

chrisd wrote:Why, just Why, would anyone WANT to save a "Mandarin"

Bureaucracy is the curse of our lives and anything bad that happens to a bureaucrat can only be of benefit to the human race.

Minimal, competent administration is needed but bureaucracy is "Anathema".


As an aside, where does the apparently derogatory "Five Mandarins" concept arise?

A Mandarin would want to save a Mandarin. Proverb still rings true in German if you couldn't grasp it in English, "Blut ist dicker als wasser."

With the accompanying effect, much bigger effect, thinly veiled effect and impetus of saving the League.

.
Last edited by cthia on Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: New Mandarin Doctrine - a Deliverance
Post by Weird Harold   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:05 am

Weird Harold
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4478
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:25 pm
Location: "Lost Wages", NV

chrisd wrote:As an aside, where does the apparently derogatory "Five Mandarins" concept arise?


Here:
A Rising Thunder
Chapter Six wrote:
Between them, she, Abruzzi, Wodoslawski and Kolokoltsov represented four of what certain newsies—headed by that never-to-be-sufficiently-damned muckraker Audrey O’Hanrahan—had begun to call “the Five Mandarins.” O’Hanrahan had been forced to explain the term’s origin to her readership initially, but once she had, it caught on quickly. Abruzzi’s publicity flaks were doing what they could to discourage its use, but it continued to spread with insidious inevitability. By now, even some of the tamer members of the Legislative Assembly were using it in news conferences and speeches.
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
Top
Re: New Mandarin Doctrine - a Deliverance
Post by chrisd   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:13 am

chrisd
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:38 am
Location: North-East England (70%) and also Thailand (30%)

Weird Harold wrote:
A Rising Thunder
Chapter Six wrote:
Between them, she, Abruzzi, Wodoslawski and Kolokoltsov represented four of what certain newsies—headed by that never-to-be-sufficiently-damned muckraker Audrey O’Hanrahan—had begun to call “the Five Mandarins.” O’Hanrahan had been forced to explain the term’s origin to her readership initially, but once she had, it caught on quickly. Abruzzi’s publicity flaks were doing what they could to discourage its use, but it continued to spread with insidious inevitability. By now, even some of the tamer members of the Legislative Assembly were using it in news conferences and speeches.


That bit I had got; it's the process that O'Hanrahan "had been forced to explain" that I was after.
I was assuming that there was some specific reference, not merely to Imperial China" where there would have been a specific "Five Mandarins"
Top
Re: New Mandarin Doctrine - a Deliverance
Post by Rincewind   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:23 am

Rincewind
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:22 pm

chrisd wrote:
That bit I had got; it's the process that O'Hanrahan "had been forced to explain" that I was after.
I was assuming that there was some specific reference, not merely to Imperial China" where there would have been a specific "Five Mandarins"


No, the concept of 'Mandarins' would have been unknown to the general population in the Solarian League. The 'Five Mandarins would refer specifically to the top five bureaucrats in the Solarian League: There would be no specific reference to 'Five Mandarins' from Imperial China.

A similar example can be found in the UK where the top Civil Servants were commonly referred to as Whitehall Mandarins; (& you would probably have to explain the term to the average citizen as they wouldn't have a clue as to what it meant).
Top
Re: New Mandarin Doctrine - a Deliverance
Post by George J. Smith   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:46 am

George J. Smith
Commodore

Posts: 873
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:48 am
Location: Ross-on-Wye UK

There could also be a nod in the direction of The Mikado by Gilbert & Sullivan, that was a satirical take on the bureaucracy of Britain at the time.
.
T&R
GJS

A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah
Top
Re: New Mandarin Doctrine - a Deliverance
Post by Rincewind   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:00 am

Rincewind
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:22 pm

George J. Smith wrote:There could also be a nod in the direction of The Mikado by Gilbert & Sullivan, that was a satirical take on the bureaucracy of Britain at the time.


Or, if you want a Twentieth Century example, the incomparable Yes, Minister & Yes, Prime Minister.

Ah yes, the hapless Jim Hacker MP; (& later PM) 'usually' being effortlessly outmanoeuvred by Sir Humphrey Appleby, the archetypal Whitehall Mandarin.

Still one of the funniest shows on TV.
Top

Return to Honorverse