Last use for SL SD captured

Dauntless wrote:but if you want them to be able to later build good ships then you are better off using old RMN/RHN pre pod SD hulls.

If they had access to those ships. I doubt that the RHN and RMN would willingly part with those ships when they will be badly needed elsewhere by the GA assuming that there are any SD's not already recalled to service.

Dauntless wrote:The solly SDs are pieces of junk in every respect, over manned, undergunned, crap PD clusters not worth using even by verge nations. for the effort (time, personnel and money) involved to transfer the solly hulls it would likely be cheaper and easier to buy some of the old stuff sold to erewhon by Janacek admiralty, ( given that they have basic podnoughts by now they would probably be happy to sell them for half what they paid which was barely anything to begin with)

1) They don't need to be state of the art warships, they need to be able to move and fight and even SLN ships can do that, maybe not as well as GA ships but well enough.
2) That is assuming that there are retired SD's somewhere that the RHN, GSN and RMN have not already recalled to service.
3) If the Battleships that Haven had during the first war were in mothball somewhere they would work too.


The idea is to give newly independent systems platforms on which to train their crew's and have some combat power. The SLN SD's are defenceless against GA SD's but Captured SLN SD's turned over to newly independent systems would be technologically equal to the SLN's ships.
The goals are to:
i. build up their manpower and train said manpower.
ii. provide some sort of defence against the SLN even if the GA still has to provide a picket
iii.Allow for those newly independent nations to be able to provide for their own stability and regional stability in the near future.

Dauntless wrote:plus as other have said technically they can't touch the solly hulls until this little problem with the mandarins has been resolved.

What problem would that be?
They would either be treated like pirates and their ships would be confiscated or they would be treated as POWs and their ships would me confiscated. If I were the GA, I would not accept any peace with the League on any terms that allow the League to survive in any significant size.

Those ships belong to the GA now and as such can be distributed by the GA in any way they deem necessary.

Sigs wrote:

Dauntless wrote:but if you want them to be able to later build good ships then you are better off using old RMN/RHN pre pod SD hulls.

If they had access to those ships. I doubt that the RHN and RMN would willingly part with those ships when they will be badly needed elsewhere by the GA assuming that there are any SD's not already recalled to service.

The RMN isn't even interested in its own SDs anymore. After the first Battle of Manticore, any remaining SDs still in service would have been yanked to provide crews for the 'python lump' SD(P)s.

munroburton wrote:
The RMN isn't even interested in its own SDs anymore. After the first Battle of Manticore, any remaining SDs still in service would have been yanked to provide crews for the 'python lump' SD(P)s.

Sorry what is the python lump?

Sigs wrote:

munroburton wrote:
The RMN isn't even interested in its own SDs anymore. After the first Battle of Manticore, any remaining SDs still in service would have been yanked to provide crews for the 'python lump' SD(P)s.

Sorry what is the python lump?

The vessels commissioned after First Manticore and before Oyster Bay. Basically, the fruits of the emergency construction programs that were started as soon as Manticore heard about Operation Thunderbolt.

sigs while you are right that they probably won't give the SDs back currently they are playing nice and not doing anything with them. mainly as they are completely rubbish and it is not worth doing anything with them regardless of the political niceties.

who said anything about state of the art? maybe the RMNs few remaining non pod SDs would be perhaps a little too good, but certainly the stuff sold to erewhon which was most of the old reserve is at least a couple of generations behind the RMN so is so old as to be completely useless (manpower intensive, unable to fire MDMs, not enough PD for MDM environment) yes the SL have only got DDM and they are dependent upon Malign for even that but RMN can't afford to a waller that can't handle MDM threats. for less money then it takes to run they could run a smaller more modern more capable combatant that does not suffer these flaws. anduril and victory class are what were likely sold and a nike (BCL) carries more PD, has DDM, is faster and runs a much smaller crew and so is of more use then an ancient SD to the RMN plus it will pay dividends further down the line.

they are going to signing defence treaties with a lot of these new nations, possibly deploying pods and LACs. using older RMN hardware will likely be more compatible with said RMN assets then Solly tech, plus it will be easier to supply parts and help build industry/economy if you are both working with similar tools.

Dauntless wrote:sigs while you are right that they probably won't give the SDs back currently they are playing nice and not doing anything with them. mainly as they are completely rubbish and it is not worth doing anything with them regardless of the political niceties.

who said anything about state of the art? maybe the RMNs few remaining non pod SDs would be perhaps a little too good, but certainly the stuff sold to erewhon which was most of the old reserve is at least a couple of generations behind the RMN so is so old as to be completely useless (manpower intensive, unable to fire MDMs, not enough PD for MDM environment) yes the SL have only got DDM and they are dependent upon Malign for even that but RMN can't afford to a waller that can't handle MDM threats. for less money then it takes to run they could run a smaller more modern more capable combatant that does not suffer these flaws. anduril and victory class are what were likely sold and a nike (BCL) carries more PD, has DDM, is faster and runs a much smaller crew and so is of more use then an ancient SD to the RMN plus it will pay dividends further down the line.

they are going to signing defence treaties with a lot of these new nations, possibly deploying pods and LACs. using older RMN hardware will likely be more compatible with said RMN assets then Solly tech, plus it will be easier to supply parts and help build industry/economy if you are both working with similar tools.

Is there a hard figure on how many of the old ships remain?

As for the SLN SD's being useless, yes they are but they are essentially training vessels that would be in service with those navies for 5-10 years until their manpower and resources allow them to be replaced.

And giving RMN's old wallers while outdated by GA's current standards are more advanced than anything the SLN currently has and giving the SLN any free technology that lets them get technological parity faster is bad in my books.

how did we get from letting states that have broke from SL have old (3/4 classes BEFORE medusa podnoughts) to letting the SLN have a chance to look at near parity RMN tech? break away states by definition are independent and not likely to be sharing info with the "invicible SLN".

i don't believe hard numbers have ever been given for exactly how many were sold off to erewhon and grayson all we were told that was that virtually every pre pod design that was in the reserve was sold at scrap prices. a number of the most recent Shpinxs and Gryphon's were kept. these were all reactivated after thunderbolt when the RMN needed any SD it could lay its hands on.

a large number of those reactivated were put back into mothball to crew the python lump of SD(p) that came out of the yards. what few that didn't were used primarily in home fleet (barring odd ones like the one that was used as headquarters for talbot fleet during the annexation conference) where they died in first manticore.

beyond what grayon and erewhon bought i'm not sure the RMN HAS any modern pre pod SDs to give even if they wanted to hence why i said go to erewhon.

the reason to use old RMN is as said it will be much easier further down the road to work with these break away states if they are using your tools. not only can you tell them exactly where most of the maintenance headaches are, they will likely need your help with spares etc which helps keep them close where you can keep an eye on them.

also if they are using your old hardware then you will know all its weak points and be able to exploit them should you need to.

Dauntless wrote:how did we get from letting states that have broke from SL have old (3/4 classes BEFORE medusa podnoughts) to letting the SLN have a chance to look at near parity RMN tech? break away states by definition are independent and not likely to be sharing info with the "invicible SLN".

Easy, the SLN is such a large network of who are connected one way or the other and are closely tied together and the League is a bigger example of that. So just because a system is independent does not mean everyone will be happy or on side especially if using former SLN personnel.

There may end up being multiple sides, some which want to stay with the League, others wanting to go with the GA other yet wanting complete independence and separation from all major organizations and others still might want to turn conqueror. Handing over ships that may one way or another end up in the hands of SLN or its successor or at least technical information ending up in SLN hands might not be end of the world but it doesn't help the GA's cause.

Dauntless wrote:i don't believe hard numbers have ever been given for exactly how many were sold off to erewhon and grayson all we were told that was that virtually every pre pod design that was in the reserve was sold at scrap prices. a number of the most recent Shpinxs and Gryphon's were kept. these were all reactivated after thunderbolt when the RMN needed any SD it could lay its hands on.

I believe that the 90 old SD's that were sold to the GSN were turned over to the RMN shortly after hostilities commenced. And I doubt that Erewhon bought anywhere near that number as at the time of the previous war they had what 2 maximum 3 squadrons of SD's in service so having almost 4 times as many ships doesn't make sense.

Dauntless wrote:the reason to use old RMN is as said it will be much easier further down the road to work with these break away states if they are using your tools. not only can you tell them exactly where most of the maintenance headaches are, they will likely need your help with spares etc which helps keep them close where you can keep an eye on them.

The GA would be loaning out officers to those nations to start up their naval buildup, I think that having someone with the naval training modeled after you is good enough. Keeping any old style SD's in reserve in case they are needed by the GA is better than giving them to systems that may or may not be friendly in the long term.

Dauntless wrote:also if they are using your old hardware then you will know all its weak points and be able to exploit them should you need to.

If they are using old SLN SD's the GA would also know their weaknesses.

Dauntless wrote:how did we get from letting states that have broke from SL have old (3/4 classes BEFORE medusa podnoughts) to letting the SLN have a chance to look at near parity RMN tech? break away states by definition are independent and not likely to be sharing info with the "invicible SLN".

i don't believe hard numbers have ever been given for exactly how many were sold off to erewhon and grayson all we were told that was that virtually every pre pod design that was in the reserve was sold at scrap prices. a number of the most recent Shpinxs and Gryphon's were kept. these were all reactivated after thunderbolt when the RMN needed any SD it could lay its hands on.

a large number of those reactivated were put back into mothball to crew the python lump of SD(p) that came out of the yards. what few that didn't were used primarily in home fleet (barring odd ones like the one that was used as headquarters for talbot fleet during the annexation conference) where they died in first manticore.

beyond what grayon and erewhon bought i'm not sure the RMN HAS any modern pre pod SDs to give even if they wanted to hence why i said go to erewhon.

the reason to use old RMN is as said it will be much easier further down the road to work with these break away states if they are using your tools. not only can you tell them exactly where most of the maintenance headaches are, they will likely need your help with spares etc which helps keep them close where you can keep an eye on them.

also if they are using your old hardware then you will know all its weak points and be able to exploit them should you need to.

Actually, Grayson got 34 Victories, 18 duquesnes, 3 Havens, and 5 Nuveau Paris DNs. Erewhon bought 8 King Williams and a couple Andurils. The only ships kept were the remaining Samothraces, Sphnix and Gryphons. (With the Belerophon and some Gladiator DNs in Reserve)

Manticore had ~ 250 SDs in may 1920, and Grayson had ~90, and fewer than 50 tube SDs were lost at BoMA - most likely ~250 survived the war

Theemile wrote:
Actually, Grayson got 34 Victories, 18 duquesnes, 3 Havens, and 5 Nuveau Paris DNs. Erewhon bought 8 King Williams and a couple Andurils. The only ships kept were the remaining Samothraces, Sphnix and Gryphons. (With the Belerophon and some Gladiator DNs in Reserve)

Manticore had ~ 250 SDs in may 1920, and Grayson had ~90, and fewer than 50 tube SDs were lost at BoMA - most likely ~250 survived the war

How many would still be in service? The RMN was in such short supply for SD's that I cannot see them putting any SD back in reserve even with new construction coming online. Having 250 old style SD's is still better than having no SD's so I doubt they removed all of them after the mauling that they got in the Battle of Manticore... but I could be wrong.