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Last use for SL SD captured

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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by saber964   » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:50 pm

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Theemile wrote:
Lord Skimper wrote:Still think Beowulf could use the best of the captured ships to flesh out their SD's. 67-167 ships should do the trick. Add 2,000 Shrike A's and as many pods as 100-200 SD's can tow and Beowulf is secured until reinforcements can arrive. Easy to get to Beowulf too. Beowulf should have enough trained crews and spare parts to keep everything running in tip top condition.



While it's as good of a plan as any, and any properly staffed peacetime navy should be able to shake the trees and find enough personnel to man 50% again of their current fleet, chances are Beowulf won't follow that path.

First, there are only 109 undamaged or lightly damaged SDs between Spindle and Manticore, so any plan requiring more than that would require using the 70ish damaged ships, which will have to wait in line to get repaired. Second, we are supposing that Beowulf is using SLN SD designs; while we know they are only deploying SLN tech, we do not actually know if Beowulf's home built ships are a home built design, or a standard SLN design. Third, Havenite SD(p)s with KHII are just months away, and each of them is worth more than a squadron of the SLN Scientists, while having a crew 2/3rds the size of a Scientist. Finally, each Scientist only had 50-60 broadside missile control channels, which was one of their failures against Manticore, making their massive number of missiles ineffective, even though they were inside their own missile range.

All that being said, I wouldn't be surprised if they grabbed a squadron or 2 to bolster their fleet temporarily while they trained up crews for the "Alliance" SD(p)s.

We also have details on the Shrike A that there were not many made before the shift to the -b mod and by 1921, they had all been retired/lost. Looks like Beowulf will have to get the good stuff.



Plus what if the SEM sold them the plans to a older but still serviceable SD design like a Sphinx class or Victory class. Like the U.S. did with the Burke class destroyers to Japan and Korea
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:29 am

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saber964 wrote:Plus what if the SEM sold them the plans to a older but still serviceable SD design like a Sphinx class or Victory class. Like the U.S. did with the Burke class destroyers to Japan and Korea

It would be kind of pointless, since Beowulf is building the Keyhole II installations for the Alliance SD(P)s. How long would it take Beowulf to build/modify everything they own to KHII standards?
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by Jonathan_S   » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:56 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
saber964 wrote:Plus what if the SEM sold them the plans to a older but still serviceable SD design like a Sphinx class or Victory class. Like the U.S. did with the Burke class destroyers to Japan and Korea

It would be kind of pointless, since Beowulf is building the Keyhole II installations for the Alliance SD(P)s. How long would it take Beowulf to build/modify everything they own to KHII standards?

Based on what we've been told, and given that their current units aren't even SD(P)s much less Keyhole I enabled?
Modifying to Keyhole II would take least as long, and at higher cost, than just building new Keyhole II podnaughts.


But they can probably have the first of the Alliance collaborative Apollo podnaught designs in around 2 years.
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by Brigade XO   » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:25 am

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Why would Beowulf want SL SDs for anything beyond salvage/surplus materials?

Even if you presume that Beowulf had been using highly modified SL designs for it's SDF and integrated a lot of SEM equipment into it, they are now manufacturing SEM spec equipment and should be able to start turning out SEM ship designs from their own yards. We have already been told (and shown) that Beowulf regularly trained with SEM units and they have encorporated a lot of SEM tech into their ships even if they have taken grate pains to keep that information from the League. At this point, I would expect that new construction and any ongoing maintenance/upgrades to the existing SDF ships would incorporate the SEM/GA advances.
Sure, they are going to need to be able to maintain and resupply the existing ships and so continue to manufacture spair parts and munitions to keep them viable for years. Beowulf is still probably able to deal with SLN and most other SDF ships on a better than one to one basis in engagements. The Malignment ships and those from the RF SDFs are another story but we (and they) already know that- other than that the RF exists and the RF shouldn't be in any hurry to openly attack Beowulf or any of it's SDF units.
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by robert132   » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:12 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:Why would Beowulf want SL SDs for anything beyond salvage/surplus materials?

Even if you presume that Beowulf had been using highly modified SL designs for it's SDF and integrated a lot of SEM equipment into it, they are now manufacturing SEM spec equipment and should be able to start turning out SEM ship designs from their own yards. We have already been told (and shown) that Beowulf regularly trained with SEM units and they have encorporated a lot of SEM tech into their ships even if they have taken grate pains to keep that information from the League. At this point, I would expect that new construction and any ongoing maintenance/upgrades to the existing SDF ships would incorporate the SEM/GA advances.
Sure, they are going to need to be able to maintain and resupply the existing ships and so continue to manufacture spair parts and munitions to keep them viable for years. Beowulf is still probably able to deal with SLN and most other SDF ships on a better than one to one basis in engagements. The Malignment ships and those from the RF SDFs are another story but we (and they) already know that- other than that the RF exists and the RF shouldn't be in any hurry to openly attack Beowulf or any of it's SDF units.


This assumes that Beowulf wishes to build SD(P)s at this time. They may well be more interested at this point in building ships and facilities suitable for system defense (they ARE facing the entire SLN (such as it is) after all) as well as the unknown capabilities of the Malignment Navy to protect their munitions and supply manufacturing infrastructure and leave power projection to the Manties and Haven for now.

They can always change their minds later after all.
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Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by Theemile   » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:51 pm

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saber964 wrote:Plus what if the SEM sold them the plans to a older but still serviceable SD design like a Sphinx class or Victory class. Like the U.S. did with the Burke class destroyers to Japan and Korea


Precisely, If the Beowulf wallers are RMN or RMN knockoff designs instead of SLN clones, it would make sense to use the closest design still in the reserves as fleet additions, IF the BSDF felt compelled to augment their force structure in the short period. The RMN still has Bellerphons DN, and Sphinx and Gryphon SDs in reserve, while Grayson has the remaining Victories. Using something their existing crews and reserve/surplus spacers are already familiar with would greatly speed the activation of any additional units.

Long term, anything short of an SD(p) is a waste of time, though spinning up extra crews might be seen as good, forward thinking.

Jonathan_S wrote:
Weird Harold wrote:It would be kind of pointless, since Beowulf is building the Keyhole II installations for the Alliance SD(P)s. How long would it take Beowulf to build/modify everything they own to KHII standards?

Based on what we've been told, and given that their current units aren't even SD(P)s much less Keyhole I enabled?
Modifying to Keyhole II would take least as long, and at higher cost, than just building new Keyhole II podnaughts.


But they can probably have the first of the Alliance collaborative Apollo podnaught designs in around 2 years.


Something tells me they will not have to wait that long. In a couple months, a few squadrons of Havenite SD(p)s may show up in Beowulf space for Keyhole 2 conversion, and some of them might just end up changing hands. If so, Beowulf will probably have 2+ squadrons before the end of Q1 1923. Yes, they will be modified Tremerrire (sic) SD(p)s with the KH2 goodies bolted on, but each can still handle a squadron+ of Scientists without breaking a sweat.

That's why it would make sense for Beowulf to augment it's force now, to build those crews required for the new ships, without draining the current force structure while the first of the new ships are working up.
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RFC said "Six years from "What the heck is that?" to "I christen thee SLNS First Podnaught" would have been remarkable ... for the RMN. For the Solarian League, frankly, I doubt very much that it would be possible"
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