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Last use for SL SD captured

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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by robert132   » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:05 pm

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Theemile wrote:Now, the real question is how many 11,12,14, and 15" gun parts and ammo are sitting in those warehouses and bunkers? While there is still obstensively a reason to have the 16" stuff around, you know the same thinking squirled away the older gun types along with them.


It would be interesting to find out. The US alone produced a huge number of these weapons.

Guns of that size weren't only used shipboard, many were mounted in coastal batteries and were swapped periodically with spares for the shipboard rifles of the same caliber and mark, though to my knowledge none of the MK-7 16" were ever used for anything other than shipboard service in the Iowa and cancelled Montana classes. 11, 12, and 14" were however and almost never stayed with the same ship or battery throughout their service lives. Some saw service as USN railway guns in Europe during WWI.

Bits of trivia; at least one 14" rifle that was sunk in USS Arizona at Pearl Harbor was recovered, refurbished and spoke in anger from USS Nevada at Normandy and others were utilized in other battlewagons. Turrets #3 and #4 from Arizona were recovered and mounted as short emplacements on Oahu but never saw combat.
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Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by Theemile   » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:20 pm

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robert132 wrote:
Theemile wrote:Now, the real question is how many 11,12,14, and 15" gun parts and ammo are sitting in those warehouses and bunkers? While there is still obstensively a reason to have the 16" stuff around, you know the same thinking squirled away the older gun types along with them.


It would be interesting to find out. The US alone produced a huge number of these weapons.

Guns of that size weren't only used shipboard, many were mounted in coastal batteries and were swapped periodically with spares for the shipboard rifles of the same caliber and mark, though to my knowledge none of the MK-7 16" were ever used for anything other than shipboard service in the Iowa and cancelled Montana classes. 11, 12, and 14" were however and almost never stayed with the same ship or battery throughout their service lives. Some saw service as USN railway guns in Europe during WWI.

Bits of trivia; at least one 14" rifle that was sunk in USS Arizona at Pearl Harbor was recovered, refurbished and spoke in anger from USS Nevada at Normandy and others were utilized in other battlewagons. Turrets #3 and #4 from Arizona were recovered and mounted as short emplacements on Oahu but never saw combat.


If the sources I found are correct the Navy held onto 50 spare Mk 2 & 3 16" guns (built for the original South Dakota and Lexington classes in the early 20's) until the Iowa fiasco forced the design of the new mk7 guns in the late 1930s. they gave these to the Army at that time and they were turned into coastal batteries, so the Mk 7 was never used in a battery.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by robert132   » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:00 am

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Theemile wrote:If the sources I found are correct the Navy held onto 50 spare Mk 2 & 3 16" guns (built for the original South Dakota and Lexington classes in the early 20's) until the Iowa fiasco forced the design of the new mk7 guns in the late 1930s. they gave these to the Army at that time and they were turned into coastal batteries, so the Mk 7 was never used in a battery.


That sounds about right and would also explain why there are so many "spare" MK-7 16" still in existence ... the extras were intended for the two cancelled Iowas, Illinois and Kentucky. Those were cancelled just before the first was ready for launch.

The turrets and barbets took the longest to construct and so were usually begun before keels were laid. I wonder if any of those were started for the Montanas.
****

Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by saber964   » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:48 pm

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robert132 wrote:
Theemile wrote:Now, the real question is how many 11,12,14, and 15" gun parts and ammo are sitting in those warehouses and bunkers? While there is still obstensively a reason to have the 16" stuff around, you know the same thinking squirled away the older gun types along with them.


It would be interesting to find out. The US alone produced a huge number of these weapons.

Guns of that size weren't only used shipboard, many were mounted in coastal batteries and were swapped periodically with spares for the shipboard rifles of the same caliber and mark, though to my knowledge none of the MK-7 16" were ever used for anything other than shipboard service in the Iowa and cancelled Montana classes. 11, 12, and 14" were however and almost never stayed with the same ship or battery throughout their service lives. Some saw service as USN railway guns in Europe during WWI.

Bits of trivia; at least one 14" rifle that was sunk in USS Arizona at Pearl Harbor was recovered, refurbished and spoke in anger from USS Nevada at Normandy and others were utilized in other battlewagons. Turrets #3 and #4 from Arizona were recovered and mounted as short emplacements on Oahu but never saw combat.



The USN has never commissioned any battleships with 11 and 15 inch guns. As to the rest there is one 14 inch battleship left USS Texas (BB-35). The last 12 inch gunned ships were the Alaska class large cruisers and the Wyoming class battleship and the last 14 inch battleship was the Mississippi class.

Hears a fun fact the U.S. memorial fleet is one of the most powerful fleets in the world. IIRC it contains

5 CV
8 BB
1 CA
1 CLG
1 ACR
2 SSN
20 SS
20-30 DD/G
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by Jonathan_S   » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:54 pm

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saber964 wrote:
Hears a fun fact the U.S. memorial fleet is one of the most powerful fleets in the world.

Kind of like the fun fact that IIRC the 2nd most powerful carrier airforce in the world is the US Marine Corp.

(Carefully phrased because they don't operate their own carriers; though the LHAs and LHDs their VTOL planes and choppers fly off of would pass for carriers in most other navies)
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by robert132   » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:55 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:
saber964 wrote:
Hears a fun fact the U.S. memorial fleet is one of the most powerful fleets in the world.

Kind of like the fun fact that IIRC the 2nd most powerful carrier airforce in the world is the US Marine Corp.

(Carefully phrased because they don't operate their own carriers; though the LHAs and LHDs their VTOL planes and choppers fly off of would pass for carriers in most other navies)


Very true Jonathan.

I served in LHA-4 Nassau during Desert Storm and unlike the usual aircraft loadout our "wing" consisted of 20 Harriers instead of the normal 6 and a larger than normal number of Super Cobra attack helos. We essentially became the 7th Carrier pitted against the Iraqis.

During the ground campaign we were running airstrikes around the clock supporting the Marines, Saudi and Kuwaiti forces moving north along the Persian Gulf coast using both Harriers and attack helos (yeah, we were THAT close inshore.)

The "CVL" or "Harrier Carrier" concept works if you stay close to the coast except you don't have airborne early warning or long range air-to-air capability though that last should change if / when the USMC F-35 variant finally gets to the force.
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Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by robert132   » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:02 pm

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saber964 wrote:
The USN has never commissioned any battleships with 11 and 15 inch guns. As to the rest there is one 14 inch battleship left USS Texas (BB-35). The last 12 inch gunned ships were the Alaska class large cruisers and the Wyoming class battleship and the last 14 inch battleship was the Mississippi class.

Hears a fun fact the U.S. memorial fleet is one of the most powerful fleets in the world. IIRC it contains

5 CV
8 BB
1 CA
1 CLG
1 ACR
2 SSN
20 SS
20-30 DD/G


Wait, I knew Nautilus was preserved (embedded in concrete,) which is the other preserved SSN?

Unfortunately none of these museum ships will ever move under her own power again and their weapons have been made incapable of firing with the exception of weapons designated for firing salutes (blank charges only) despite the horseapples seen in the movie "Battleship."
****

Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by Jonathan_S   » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:12 pm

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robert132 wrote:Wait, I knew Nautilus was preserved (embedded in concrete,) which is the other preserved SSN?
I wonder if saber964 was mistaken about that -- I went through the list of museum ships on Wikipedia and the only 2 nuclear ones I saw in the US were the USS Nautilus and the NS Savannah.

[Unless you want to count the sail of the SSBN-636 USS Nathanael Greene; which on display alongside the Trident turning basin at Port Canaveral, FL. Wiki didn't list that one :D]



Also somehow I'd never stumbled across the fact that there are a couple of ex-Soviet Foxtrot class subs on display in the US.
Last edited by Jonathan_S on Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by saber964   » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:21 pm

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Location: Spokane WA USA

Jonathan_S wrote:
robert132 wrote:Wait, I knew Nautilus was preserved (embedded in concrete,) which is the other preserved SSN?
I wonder if robert132 was mistaken about that -- I went through the list of museum ships on Wikipedia and the only 2 nuclear ones I saw in the US were the USS Nautilus and the NS Savannah.

[Unless you want to count the sail of the SSBN-636 USS Nathanael Greene; which on display alongside the Trident turning basin at Port Canaveral, FL. Wiki didn't list that one :D]


Sorry I thought that USS Triton was preserved. When only her sail was.


Also somehow I'd never stumbled across the fact that there are a couple of ex-Soviet Foxtrot class subs on display in the US.
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by Lord Skimper   » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:30 pm

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Why not just use them as small Forts and park a dozen of them at each junction. Park a dozen Keyhole II's with them and a set of system pods. They don't have to go anywhere, they are strong enough to absorb fire from anything coming through the junctions, they can go through the junctions themselves if need be, Spare parts come from the damaged ships or Beowulf or other Solly systems. ERM missiles and Current CM's new software updates. Upgrade them with missile tube based sensor systems. Like HALO only better. Missile tube sensors suites can provide additional control links for linking to the Keyhole II's.
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