Great Gryphon, Nike, Saganami and Roland

darrell wrote:

Theemile wrote:It's not that there isn't some validity here. Many people have in fact mentioned it before. The real problem with a Apollo tube SD is the apollo system itself. What we have seen is the xth iteration of apollo hardware, with research running back 75 years. This is the "stable" fieldable version, for now. It is possible that in 6 months project "oragami" may find a way for the ftl receiver to fold up, and unfold during flight to receive pulses, so the entire ACM is able to shrink to a standard mk-23 chassis dimensions.then project "gluestick" finds a way to stick the ftl receiver into every missile, then project "i ran out of letters" finds a way....

If anything like this happens, a podnaught just needs to swap out pods. Manticore's podnuaghts have gone through 4 major generations of weapon systems between their design phase and now. A new Tube SD would quickly be in the same position as the last Gryphon, armed with outdated tubes and being overly costly to update. In 15-20 years, once the turmoil of new weapons has died down abd stabilized,I can see a Tube SD comeback, butnot now.

Secondly, it is easy to replace a big missile tube with a smaller one, if nessesary. thank about it like replacing an 18" gun with a 16" gun.

First and most important, IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO REPLACE THE TUBE. somewhere in the perals there is a statement by RFC that a large tube can fire a smaller missile. I was unable to find it on a quick search, but did find the following:

http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... ngton/82/1
Naval refits
Note that some of the late model pre-pod ships in the RMN and the GSN are in a somewhat different category from their older consorts. Some of them were built after the probable dimensions for the MDM were already known, and they were given larger launchers, bigger magazines, and outside ammo handling equipment while still on the building ways. Those ships need no refit to handle the MDM through their broadside launchers. (Think of this as the USN's decision to design "outsized" torpedo tubes into its latest generation of attack subs so that if bigger weapons come along, they'll be able to fire them from existing platforms.)

That means that a tube built to fire an apollo control missile will fire a Mk-23 missile without modification or rebuilding.

<sigh> Not going to argue, except to say that this may have changed sometime over the past 14 years since that Pearl was written. I won't be able to convince you otherwise unless David personally comes here to confirm or refute, so let's just leave it at that.

Weird Harold wrote:

darrell wrote:ever heard of something called keyhole 2????

Yep, I believe that Skimpy mentioned it in his original post:

Lord Skimper wrote:Gryphon refit carries 92 Mk23 tubes. It does not carry Keyhole I or II but if made from scratch, would.

Although a ship built from scratch would NOT be a "Gryphon," it would be a completely new design with all of the advances made in the last century or so.

Of course the SD can use Keyhole II they just need a ship to carry the Keyhole II while in Transit. A Fast Freighter with
military wedge that carries two to four Keyhole For each ship. One might also refit some BC with Keyhole II and massive fire control that just sit well out of range of anything else and direct fire from the other ships. MDM massive range and FTL control means you could sit 50 million km away and pound everything to slag. Homer class BC are quick and easy to refit even in Silesian yards and fit will fire control and Keyhole II can just sniper the enemy. Just fill each missile tube with a fire control 'pod'. Homer missiles never were very good afterall. Keep its Grasers, the unmentionable and ET can be removed to fit the Keyhole II. 8L 8G for close in defense. Plus some Mk23 & Mk16 pods in tow. 20 missiles tubes worth of fire control can direct a few missiles. With Keyhole that is at least 40. 86 total ships and you have at least 80 missile control links each. 16 more with chase and you control at least 96 missiles feed through each Keyhole II. If it is just that or twice that you could mount just 1 Keyhole II per ship.

Given the number of energy weapons on a Gryphon each had its own control systems. Those could be changed to missile controls the tech is only 20ish years old. Given the age of every fire control officer 20-30 years on duty every one of them knows how those systems work. Pro longing ones life has its advantages with older systems.

For Refitting the Gryphon and Sphinx one can pull the lasers. Just keep the Grasers that is 19 - 21 systems. Upgrade the Missile tubes to Mk23 or 16. 36/37 per broadside 8/9 per chase. Replace the huge ET with Apollo tubes. 6/8 per broadside. Tow a pair of Keyhole II or I's and fill the lasers with Fire control. If the missiles are going to be a problem a ERM missile replacement solves many of the problems and towing Keyhole I. Keyhole has its own Tractor beams and Wedge. Hmm gives me an Idea....