Can you "Overload" a Laserwarhead?

IMO, not in the typical sense of overload - the grav lens focusing capacity can be overloaded yielding wasted energy.

It reminds me of some of the design problems inherent in the first nuclear bombs. Controlling the introduction of the extra amount of energy into the system in a timely manner. Implosions have to create a purely symmetrical shock wave to work. Controlling that much extra energy while maintaining a completely symmetrical implosion in a timely manner would introduce new problems - the least of which is a lensing system built for it.

I think the OP may have had in mind siphoning the remaining reactor fuel into the warhead before detonation. We'd need a BuNine pronunciamento to be sure, but I doubt that that would be feasible in the few seconds between drive shut down and detonation. OTOH, it would be feasible to use the warhead as the fuel tank, which would leave any unspent fuel from the drive budget in place to add to the boom. The problem with _that_ is that you could have anywhere from 15 seconds to 9 minutes on any given missile's clock when it booms - that's an awful lot of variation in fuel load for the explosion, although we don't know what it represents as a percentage of the base charge of the warhead. If it's as much as I anticipate, you're looking at anywhere from a 50% to several hundred percent variation in yield, and the lens system would have to be designed to handle all of it. Probably doable, but it adds mass and bulk to the system. Which would have to come from somewhere else in the missile.

On top of that, you'd be looking at a diminishing return on the other end: a laser rod, particularly a superluminant design like this one, can only use as much pumping energy as is needed to fully populate the upper laser level. Anything more than that will simply destroy the rod that much faster. Existing designs prior to the Mod G were clearly underpumping the rods, or the mod wouldn't have been effective, but we have no idea how much of the deficit has been made up - probably quite a lot of it. If so, even a 50% increase in yield might not give a 50% increase in laser output.

So the answer to the original question is 'yes'

Loren Pechtel wrote:The problem is one of focusing.

The reactor fuel is going to produce some energy if it's in close proximity to the detonating warhead. Anything that will yield energy under neutron bombardment will increase the power of the boom. (Consider: Tsar Bomba was detonated at 50mt. Replace the inert case with one made of U-238 and you get a very dirty 100mt.)

You face the minor problem that the reactor isn't inside the focusing system. This would be easy enough to overcome--direct the fuel into the warhead chamber just before you fire the warhead. The boom power would go up.

Unfortunately, the best outcome here is that the the extra power is basically wasted, the worst outcome is the focusing system fails and the lasers are flashlights instead of shipkillers.

The problem is size is critical. The focusing system isn't going to be built to focus a boom any bigger than the warhead--but the extra energy is being liberated outside that zone. Maybe it just doesn't focus, maybe it fries the focusing system entirely.

I wonder if the "overload" mode is probably where a mentioned bit comes from..(correct me if I am remembering the specific bits correctly) -- by PD 1922, all RMN missiles warheads have the capacity to either "boom or blast", that is, as a bomb pumped laser warhead OR a thermonuke [to take out pods, as sidewall penetrators, etc.], as opposed to having to requeue missiles in order to do the same thing, as Rafe Cardones did in HotQ.

yes/no maybe?

SharkHunter wrote:I wonder if the "overload" mode is probably where a mentioned bit comes from..(correct me if I am remembering the specific bits correctly) -- by PD 1922, all RMN missiles warheads have the capacity to either "boom or blast", that is, as a bomb pumped laser warhead OR a thermonuke [to take out pods, as sidewall penetrators, etc.], as opposed to having to requeue missiles in order to do the same thing, as Rafe Cardones did in HotQ.

yes/no maybe?

Nope. Has nothing to do with "overloading". All laserhead missiles have a nuclear warhead. If you want to use one as a contact nuke, you simply change the settings to not deploy the laserheads and let the missile run its course.

A simple thought experiment produces this:

Lets assume the grav generator is BEHIND the Fusion reactor which is behind the nuclear bomb. Nuc bomb goes off, explodes the reactor instantly(even though we know its not) hits grav focuser and magically gets pushed forward.

GG>FR>LR~~~" arrangement to properly explode all fuel possible.

Lets do a very simple thought experiment.

Q: What IS, a fusion reactor?
A: A fusion reactor is a vessel that is operating at insanely high temperatures and pressures.

Q: How are those insanely high Temps/Pressures contained?
A: With very high tensile materials that can withstand insanely high temperatures.

Q: How does one transmit that nuclear fusion energy to electrical energy? Or maybe they somehow straight couple fusion plasma straight to the impeller nodes themselves.
A: With very high tensile materials that can withstand insanely high temperatures.

Q: Do these materials allow grav focusing waves through them?
A: Most likely not. On top of this consideration is the arrangement of the Fusion reactor will not be homogonous in structure, meaning even if the materials in question were partially opaque, the opacity quotient in any given area will be different depending on the structure of the reactor and energy conversion system in question.

Q: Could they design around these different grav wave quotients due to opacity of the Fusion Reactor structure itself?
A: Uh........... Maybe.

Q: Would this extra distance created by the FR in front of the Grav lens cause a timing wavefront issue?
A: Most likely.

Q: Can this timing issue be solved?
A: Uh........... Maybe.

Wouldn't be easy from the KISS principle of engineering.

.... .....

Pssst: Hey, guess what? Bu9 drawings say no...

Lets do an andendum simple thought experiment:

IF the FR is placed in front of the GG: Will this add mass?

Duh, yes it will. Giant honking power conduits have to get to the impeller rings. They are now much longer. I think it safe to say that the power conduit to the GG is vastly smaller than that going to the impeller rings accelerating a 100+ ton object at 100,000g.

Simple pwr calc: DW has constant pwr.
Pwr = W/t
W = F*dx
P = F*V
F = ma
P = VMA
V = A*T
P = T*M*A*2

P = 1s*100,000kg*(1,000,000m/s^2)
P = 1E17W, or 100,000TW

Total world energy output last year was ~22,000TWh
~9000 hours/year
22,000/9000 =~2.3TW

100,000 / 2.3 = ~~ 50,000 X more power throughput in a MK16 missile than the entire worlds energy production currently...

Knock, Knock:
Who is there:
Your favorite gigantic honking energy conduit...

MaxxQ wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:I wonder if the "overload" mode is probably where a mentioned bit comes from..(correct me if I am remembering the specific bits correctly) -- by PD 1922, all RMN missiles warheads have the capacity to either "boom or blast", that is, as a bomb pumped laser warhead OR a thermonuke [to take out pods, as sidewall penetrators, etc.], as opposed to having to requeue missiles in order to do the same thing, as Rafe Cardones did in HotQ.

yes/no maybe?

Nope. Has nothing to do with "overloading". All laserhead missiles have a nuclear warhead. If you want to use one as a contact nuke, you simply change the settings to not deploy the laserheads and let the missile run its course.

True. I was thinking "size of the blast" and his requeuing action, though that was probably to set up the phalanx of penaid plus strike missiles. Seems like the result was that he hit the sidewalls with a couple of 500Megaton hits, but I'd imagine that any extra fusion fuel in the missile would also add to the "globe" of the explosion, but against a sidewall, all but about a degree of the globe is wasted anyway.

I have seen some good suggestions till now.

Maybe I should add something to explain my question.

I saw a documentaion on TV about the biggest nuclear explosin of the United states of America. They engeneered a 5 Megaton bomb and tested it at the Bikini Atoll.

BUT: The Explosion had 15 Megatons! What happend? They used Lithium 6 as core fuel for the bomb, but they also add Lithium 7 to stabilize the Lithium 6. No one expected, that the Lithium 7 turned into Lithium 6 as the fusion reaction starts.

Grav lenses and filiamente are designed for a calculated size of Explosion. Is the Explosion bigger, can they still do their work or would they destroyed?

Maldorian wrote:Grav lenses and filiamente are designed for a calculated size of Explosion. Is the Explosion bigger, can they still do their work or would they destroyed?

Why would it be bigger? By the time of the Honorverse, people have been using nuclear weapons for literally thousands of years; I would imagine that the designers know how to get precise performance out of them. All factors going into it are known and there is a plethora of experimental and experiential data to build accurate models, given all that, it would be surprising to me if there is any significant variability in there.

Relax wrote:A simple thought experiment produces this:

Lets assume the grav generator is BEHIND the Fusion reactor which is behind the nuclear bomb. Nuc bomb goes off, explodes the reactor instantly(even though we know its not) hits grav focuser and magically gets pushed forward.

GG>FR>LR~~~" arrangement to properly explode all fuel possible.

Lets do a very simple thought experiment.

Q: What IS, a fusion reactor?
A: A fusion reactor is a vessel that is operating at insanely high temperatures and pressures.

Q: How are those insanely high Temps/Pressures contained?
A: With very high tensile materials that can withstand insanely high temperatures.

Q: How does one transmit that nuclear fusion energy to electrical energy? Or maybe they somehow straight couple fusion plasma straight to the impeller nodes themselves.
A: With very high tensile materials that can withstand insanely high temperatures.

Q: Do these materials allow grav focusing waves through them?
A: Most likely not. On top of this consideration is the arrangement of the Fusion reactor will not be homogonous in structure, meaning even if the materials in question were partially opaque, the opacity quotient in any given area will be different depending on the structure of the reactor and energy conversion system in question.

Q: Could they design around these different grav wave quotients due to opacity of the Fusion Reactor structure itself?
A: Uh........... Maybe.

Q: Would this extra distance created by the FR in front of the Grav lens cause a timing wavefront issue?
A: Most likely.

Q: Can this timing issue be solved?
A: Uh........... Maybe.

Wouldn't be easy from the KISS principle of engineering.

.... .....

Pssst: Hey, guess what? Bu9 drawings say no...

Your thought experiment breaks down with your second answer. there is no material that is not instantly vaporized at the temperatures required for nuclear fusion.

Q: How are those insanely high Temps/Pressures contained?
A: In the Honorverse by a gravity bottle. In real life pre disapora it is contained by a magnetic bottle.

Q: How does one transmit that nuclear fusion energy to electrical energy?
A: Open the bottle at one point to let a little of the energy out. In real life pre disapora use that energy to turn water to high pressure steam to run a steam turbine generator.

Q: Do these materials allow grav focusing waves through them?
A: It doesn't matter. The generator creating the gravity or magnetic bottle will be destroyed, that gets rid of the bottle, so now there is nothing in the way.

However, warships firing fusion powered missiles have armor around the tubes to prevent a micro fusion plant from destroying nearby tubes. In order for this to be a benifit, that means that a micro fusion plant explosion must be a much smaller explosion, probably no bigger than a few Ktons. With a 50megaton warhead, adding 500K tons would only add 1% to the explosive power, which is so not worth any engineering headaches.