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League FTL

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League FTL
Post by Alistair   » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:09 pm

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Quote from "In Enemy Hands"

Equally apparently, the leak in the embargo spurted both ways, for a source within the League Navy reported that the League's R&D types were now experimenting with their own version of the short-range FTL com system which was one of the RMN's most valuable tactical advantages. Their success was extremely limited to date, but they were headed in the right direction, and the progress they'd made, not to mention the basic concepts upon which their efforts appeared to be based, suggested that someone had been sharing data with them. It was always possible that an agent within the Allies' own military had passed the information on, but the Peeps, who'd seen the system in action and undoubtedly had sensor readings on it (not to mention the possibility that they might have captured a transmitter sufficiently intact to permit them to reverse-engineer it), were more likely suspects. And if they could, in fact, provide information to help the League develop that sort of capability, then a quid pro quo that sent more capable military hardware back to Haven in return would seem only fair.


Soo if the SL was experimenting with the FTL why did it take them sooo much by surprise later on??
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Re: League FTL
Post by Vince   » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:23 pm

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Alistair wrote:Quote from "In Enemy Hands"

Equally apparently, the leak in the embargo spurted both ways, for a source within the League Navy reported that the League's R&D types were now experimenting with their own version of the short-range FTL com system which was one of the RMN's most valuable tactical advantages. Their success was extremely limited to date, but they were headed in the right direction, and the progress they'd made, not to mention the basic concepts upon which their efforts appeared to be based, suggested that someone had been sharing data with them. It was always possible that an agent within the Allies' own military had passed the information on, but the Peeps, who'd seen the system in action and undoubtedly had sensor readings on it (not to mention the possibility that they might have captured a transmitter sufficiently intact to permit them to reverse-engineer it), were more likely suspects. And if they could, in fact, provide information to help the League develop that sort of capability, then a quid pro quo that sent more capable military hardware back to Haven in return would seem only fair.


Soo if the SL was experimenting with the FTL why did it take them sooo much by surprise later on??

Mostly arrogance. No neo-barb could possibly do it better than the ISLN, after all (conveniently ignoring or being ignorant of the fact that the neo-barbs in question had actually invented the idea, and had at least a decade's--if not more--time of experience using and further developing and refining it).
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Re: League FTL
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:11 pm

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Vince wrote:
Alistair wrote:Soo if the SL was experimenting with the FTL why did it take them sooo much by surprise later on??

Mostly arrogance. No neo-barb could possibly do it better than the ISLN, after all (conveniently ignoring or being ignorant of the fact that the neo-barbs in question had actually invented the idea, and had at least a decade's--if not more--time of experience using and further developing and refining it).


Partly, NIH, but from comments by Adm Byng and other SLN officers, it wasn't that they didn't believe FTL Comm was possible, it was that the SL R&D types hadn't cracked the miniaturization, power budget, or bandwidth Manticore and Haven are capable of.

Haven hadn't cracked the problems either, but they were far closer than the League -- eg the RHN used specialized LACs to monitor drones and compile reports for FTL transmission.

SLN officers who are cognizant of the FTL research are of the opinion that it requires an SD scale wedge to transmit at even anemic teletype rates. They might be ready to believe that with Manticore's head-start the might be able to squeeze FTL comm into a DN or BC, but no way could anyone squeeze it into a drone or even a DD.
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Re: League FTL
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:13 pm

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Alistair wrote:Quote from "In Enemy Hands"

Equally apparently, the leak in the embargo spurted both ways, for a source within the League Navy reported that the League's R&D types were now experimenting with their own version of the short-range FTL com system which was one of the RMN's most valuable tactical advantages. Their success was extremely limited to date, but they were headed in the right direction, and the progress they'd made, not to mention the basic concepts upon which their efforts appeared to be based, suggested that someone had been sharing data with them. It was always possible that an agent within the Allies' own military had passed the information on, but the Peeps, who'd seen the system in action and undoubtedly had sensor readings on it (not to mention the possibility that they might have captured a transmitter sufficiently intact to permit them to reverse-engineer it), were more likely suspects. And if they could, in fact, provide information to help the League develop that sort of capability, then a quid pro quo that sent more capable military hardware back to Haven in return would seem only fair.


Soo if the SL was experimenting with the FTL why did it take them sooo much by surprise later on??

IIRC, the answer came from one of the idiots himself, Byng I think. What really surprised them and made it most difficult to believe was the miniaturization achieved in the Manty tech. Again IIRC, Byng stated that the SL breakthroughs incorporated huge platforms with very limited success -- among other things.

Other than the neobard polity thing.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: League FTL
Post by JeffEngel   » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:10 am

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Byng apparently stood out among the BF senior officer corps for keeping track of the latest in R&D and Haven Sector intelligence appreciations. ("Stood out" at least as far as he knew or would believe, so take it with a whole lotta context.) So another factor there may be a lot of SLN officers simply not bothering to find out all the SLN would have let them about what was known or believed in terms of existing or possible FTL comms - on top of what the SLN "knew" about FTL comms being relentlessly pessimistic about the possibilities and chauvinistic about what mere Verge throwbacks could do with their sticks and rocks.
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Re: League FTL
Post by Theemile   » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:39 am

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Alistair wrote:Quote from "In Enemy Hands"

Equally apparently, the leak in the embargo spurted both ways, for a source within the League Navy reported that the League's R&D types were now experimenting with their own version of the short-range FTL com system which was one of the RMN's most valuable tactical advantages. Their success was extremely limited to date, but they were headed in the right direction, and the progress they'd made, not to mention the basic concepts upon which their efforts appeared to be based, suggested that someone had been sharing data with them. It was always possible that an agent within the Allies' own military had passed the information on, but the Peeps, who'd seen the system in action and undoubtedly had sensor readings on it (not to mention the possibility that they might have captured a transmitter sufficiently intact to permit them to reverse-engineer it), were more likely suspects. And if they could, in fact, provide information to help the League develop that sort of capability, then a quid pro quo that sent more capable military hardware back to Haven in return would seem only fair.


Soo if the SL was experimenting with the FTL why did it take them sooo much by surprise later on??



25 years ago or so, I wrote a paper in College on FELs (Free Electron Lasers), unable to get my hands on an actual FEL, most of my paper was written using details from published documents - most over 10 years old by the time I accessed them. Most of these were either Government sponsored college experiments, or (more limited) work done in government labs.

So you can assume, that the US government has been working on FELs for at least 35-40 years (more actually). Recent advances have allowed the US Navy to say that they may be putting a limited energy FEL (for anti-missile, drone and plane use) in a ship in the 10-15 year timeframe.

So we're looking at easily 50+ years of development to get an item that we have demonstrated working examples of into a useable product.

Now to the Honorverse.

The SLN team probably realized the same as Honor that you can wink a ship's wedge (a technology they can already build); but how do you do this quickly and how much energy will it need? And of course, they are probably on a shoestring budget (relatively), and they are taking the slow, milestone approach to the problem, trying to hit the set milestones in the time allotted, so they can get the next small paycheck, so they can continue to the next milestone, lather, rinse, repeat.

Eventually, the current team will miss their milestones, and that project will end. Later, another project will pickup, usually with a different team (and little access to the other team's top secret notes), and will progress a little further until milestones are missed, then the team is disbanded.

Lather, rinse, repeat...

The details Byng is relating are probably projections from the current research team (or the last team's details Byng had access to). They are probably X years from prototype hardware, and what was related was just their estimates for what it would take to actually build it knowing what they know now.
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Re: League FTL
Post by Dauntless   » Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:23 am

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also don't forget the SLN believes itself king of the galaxy and is VERY resistant to change, as pointed out by the fact that a lot of reserve ships still have autocannon point defence.

so this means that the R&D department's budget will be very small and probably focus on more cosmetic upgrades i.e. the fleet 2000 program.
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Re: League FTL
Post by cthia   » Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:21 am

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Dauntless wrote:also don't forget the SLN believes itself king of the galaxy and is VERY resistant to change, as pointed out by the fact that a lot of reserve ships still have autocannon point defence.

so this means that the R&D department's budget will be very small and probably focus on more cosmetic upgrades i.e. the fleet 2000 program.

The Fleet 2000 upgrades were simply software upgrades hidden under the guise of hardware. Apparently, the SLN were using outdated computers thought to be subject to the Y2K problem, resetting to 1900. :D

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: League FTL
Post by Dauntless   » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:16 pm

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forgotten the software part. I just remembered the bit where byng's flag captain grumbles about how all the upgrade did was make the bridge look prettier for holo.
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Re: League FTL
Post by cthia   » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:12 pm

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Dauntless wrote:forgotten the software part. I just remembered the bit where byng's flag captain grumbles about how all the upgrade did was make the bridge look prettier for holo.

It was meant as a joke... the Y2K problem???

Sorry.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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