Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

What, no planet kablooey?

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by Kael Posavatz   » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:48 am

Kael Posavatz
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:51 am

Okay, time to change, er, get back on topic.

How have we gotten sixteen pages and no one has mentioned Peter F. Hamilton's 'Alchemist' for star system-deconstruction yet?
Top
Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by tlb   » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:31 pm

tlb
Admiral

Posts: 2080
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:34 am

Kael Posavatz wrote:I manage to keep sticking my foot in my mouth this thread.

Actually I want to thank you for providing some light on a part of history where "what we could" came in conflict with "what we ought".
Top
Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by George J. Smith   » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:41 pm

George J. Smith
Commodore

Posts: 858
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:48 am
Location: Ross-on-Wye UK

ISTR that rfc had Dahak cause a star to go supernova and kill off an entire solar system. (as well as the baddies)
.
T&R
GJS

A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah
Top
Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by cthia   » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:11 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 13024
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

George J. Smith wrote:ISTR that rfc had Dahak cause a star to go supernova and kill off an entire solar system. (as well as the baddies)
The Dahak series just sounds better and better.

But. My first thought on this post is how the heck does one cause a star to supernova. Perhaps I'll read. But more than that, if a species has the kind of tech to do that, then why do they even need to bother with the star?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by Dauntless   » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:08 am

Dauntless
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1011
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:54 am
Location: United Kingdom

can't explain it without filling in all sorts of details that would ruin the book but in essence.

they knew bad guys would be there and they didn't have enough ships to kill them conventionally. so using CLASSIFIED means they nova'd the star to win the war. then more bad stuff happened.
Top
Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:16 am

TFLYTSNBN

cthia wrote:
George J. Smith wrote:ISTR that rfc had Dahak cause a star to go supernova and kill off an entire solar system. (as well as the baddies)
The Dahak series just sounds better and better.

But. My first thought on this post is how the heck does one cause a star to supernova. Perhaps I'll read. But more than that, if a species has the kind of tech to do that, then why do they even need to bother with the star?



Stellar Kablooey not that challenging for a society with Dahek level technology. A star is a large mass of mostly fusion fuel. Straight hydrogen has a very low fusion reaction cross section even at tens of millions of Kelvins. Burn rate even at the core is very low. Heat is carried away from the core to the surface via convection, not radiation.

A star is a self regulating fusion reactor. If the fusion rate is to low, the core cools and contracts. If the fusion rate isto high, the core heats up and expands. Reaction rate is proportional to plasma density squared. A contracting core is denser so the fusion reaction rate increases. An expanding core is less dense so fusion reaction rate decreases. The result is a self regulating fusion furnace. All stars expand and contract, which regulates their fusion reaction rate. This is why variable stars are very common.

Now do something, anything, that dumps a lot of energy into a star and creates a shockwave that increases the local density in a relatively large volume. Detonate a million megaton nuke in it. Impact the star with a Bussard ramship doing about .99c. Drop a planet in the star, or awarship the size of a large moon. Fusion reaction rate suddenly soars resulting in more heat, more pressure, and more density which results in even more fusion. You might not get the entire mass of the star to undergo fusion, but just a few percent is suffecient to create a nova level explosion.

Incidentally, this is basically how a fission-fusion bomb functions. A shockwave initiated by a fission reaction propogates through the fusion fuel that has been precompressed by reflected X-rays which results in an amplyfing fusion reaction.
Top
Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by cthia   » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:37 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 13024
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

cthia wrote:
George J. Smith wrote:ISTR that rfc had Dahak cause a star to go supernova and kill off an entire solar system. (as well as the baddies)
The Dahak series just sounds better and better.

But. My first thought on this post is how the heck does one cause a star to supernova. Perhaps I'll read. But more than that, if a species has the kind of tech to do that, then why do they even need to bother with the star?



TFLYTSNBN wrote:Stellar Kablooey not that challenging for a society with Dahek level technology. A star is a large mass of mostly fusion fuel. Straight hydrogen has a very low fusion reaction cross section even at tens of millions of Kelvins. Burn rate even at the core is very low. Heat is carried away from the core to the surface via convection, not radiation.

A star is a self regulating fusion reactor. If the fusion rate is to low, the core cools and contracts. If the fusion rate isto high, the core heats up and expands. Reaction rate is proportional to plasma density squared. A contracting core is denser so the fusion reaction rate increases. An expanding core is less dense so fusion reaction rate decreases. The result is a self regulating fusion furnace. All stars expand and contract, which regulates their fusion reaction rate. This is why variable stars are very common.

Now do something, anything, that dumps a lot of energy into a star and creates a shockwave that increases the local density in a relatively large volume. Detonate a million megaton nuke in it. Impact the star with a Bussard ramship doing about .99c. Drop a planet in the star, or awarship the size of a large moon. Fusion reaction rate suddenly soars resulting in more heat, more pressure, and more density which results in even more fusion. You might not get the entire mass of the star to undergo fusion, but just a few percent is suffecient to create a nova level explosion.

Incidentally, this is basically how a fission-fusion bomb functions. A shockwave initiated by a fission reaction propogates through the fusion fuel that has been precompressed by reflected X-rays which results in an amplyfing fusion reaction.


I may be able to come up with several ways that might work myself, but I suppose I should have been clearer in my intended thought. "How do you get any tech, and its method of delivery, close enough without burning up to do the trick?"

****** *

I think the IED of sorts, capable of delivering a planet killing kablooey the aliens in Battlefield Earth developed to teleport onto an enemy planet was ingenious, straightforward, simpler and oh so devious! The only thing needed was the proper coordinates.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by phillies   » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:45 am

phillies
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1978
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:43 am
Location: Worcester, MA

The Taurus Games (paper war games) intergalactic war series had warships that were four light years long, meaning that something like a Death Star might be useful as a passenger elevator, the main weapon being the rodent control device.
Top
Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:00 pm

Loren Pechtel
Commodore

Posts: 957
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:24 pm

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Now do something, anything, that dumps a lot of energy into a star and creates a shockwave that increases the local density in a relatively large volume. Detonate a million megaton nuke in it. Impact the star with a Bussard ramship doing about .99c. Drop a planet in the star, or awarship the size of a large moon. Fusion reaction rate suddenly soars resulting in more heat, more pressure, and more density which results in even more fusion. You might not get the entire mass of the star to undergo fusion, but just a few percent is suffecient to create a nova level explosion.

Incidentally, this is basically how a fission-fusion bomb functions. A shockwave initiated by a fission reaction propogates through the fusion fuel that has been precompressed by reflected X-rays which results in an amplyfing fusion reaction.


The problem with this approach is that the fusion reaction is far from anything you dump in there. There is one scientist who thinks a sufficient energy dump can create a self-sustaining fusion shockwave but I've heard he's not too credible.

As for the hydrogen bomb--the reason that goes fast is that it's made of lithium (which splits into helium-3 and either helium-3 (if Li6) or helium-4 (if Li7), the He3 then reacting with the deuterium. There's also deuterium-deuterium fusion. These reactions go far faster than plain hydrogen fusion. Put starstuff in the bomb and you're not going to get a meaningful fusion yield.
Top
Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by Kael Posavatz   » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:21 pm

Kael Posavatz
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:51 am

A star is a finely balanced piece of astral engineering.

A precise blend of fusion-provided heat pushing matter 'out' and gravity holding matter 'in' so that it keeps fusing.

Tampering with this mix results in your star going 'kablooey' or turning into a heatless lump. The former reduces the star and everything close by into its constituent atomic components. The latter puts the system into a deep freeze
:D
Top

Return to Honorverse