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What, no planet kablooey?

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Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by Dauntless   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:16 am

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cthia wrote:I still wonder what would have happened to Earth had a cure not been found for the Final Wars - had Beowulf not been able to pull a rabbit out of its hat.

Would it have affected nearby systems as well?


doubtful. they were all independent and self sufficient. they had to be as when most them left it was at lest a couple of years trip to their new home. there was no going back for things.

worst case, earth dies and out and in a fit of sentiment an alliance is formed to bring it back to life, with several of the initial colonies donating resources/personnel.
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Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:10 am

TFLYTSNBN

Dauntless wrote:
cthia wrote:I still wonder what would have happened to Earth had a cure not been found for the Final Wars - had Beowulf not been able to pull a rabbit out of its hat.

Would it have affected nearby systems as well?


doubtful. they were all independent and self sufficient. they had to be as when most them left it was at lest a couple of years trip to their new home. there was no going back for things.

worst case, earth dies and out and in a fit of sentiment an alliance is formed to bring it back to life, with several of the initial colonies donating resources/personnel.


If no cure had been developed, they would have quarentined Sol System.

Ditto for Manticore during the plague years.
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Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by cthia   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:33 am

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Dauntless wrote:
cthia wrote:I still wonder what would have happened to Earth had a cure not been found for the Final Wars - had Beowulf not been able to pull a rabbit out of its hat.

Would it have affected nearby systems as well?


doubtful. they were all independent and self sufficient. they had to be as when most them left it was at lest a couple of years trip to their new home. there was no going back for things.

worst case, earth dies and out and in a fit of sentiment an alliance is formed to bring it back to life, with several of the initial colonies donating resources/personnel.


TFLYTSNBN wrote:If no cure had been developed, they would have quarentined Sol System.

Ditto for Manticore during the plague years.


They who, would quarantine the Sol system from the millions of people who aren't infected, or think they aren't, from fleeing the planet?

And after it finally spreads? And it will. It only takes one bribe from a filthy rich but infected person - who wants out - of a money lovin' money grubbin' idiot. These idiots are never in short supply.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by Dauntless   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:42 pm

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I don't think sick refugess fleeing the sol system would much of a problem. from what little we have on that time period space had pretty much been abandaned long before the bugs were relesed.

Also, I can't immediately put my hands on reference that says old earth was infected, and from what i remember it was more nukes and chemical weapons making it on the verge of uninhabitable before Beowulf and the proto SL arrived to fix the planet.
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Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by Somtaaw   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:29 pm

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Dauntless wrote:I don't think sick refugess fleeing the sol system would much of a problem. from what little we have on that time period space had pretty much been abandaned long before the bugs were relesed.

Also, I can't immediately put my hands on reference that says old earth was infected, and from what i remember it was more nukes and chemical weapons making it on the verge of uninhabitable before Beowulf and the proto SL arrived to fix the planet.


Ukraine revealed the Scrag supersoldiers, Europe responded with Biological weapons, China retaliated with Chemical weapons AND their own supersoldiers, and North America unleashed weaponized nanotech; which is why everybody except Mesa thinks weaponized nanotech is insanity.

I recall reading somewhere, think it was Honor mentioned the Plague never would have made it beyond Sol, it was that well contained before Beowulf arrived to start the healing. So if Beowulf had never come to help....Earth would be dead, Mars almost certainly, the Belters would probably also be dead, and that's it.

From the description of what diseases were used, and how the nanotech weapons functioned, everything "ran hot" and had little to no dwell time. So even if some (rich, but infected) person managed to launch a spaceship and go into Cyrosleep, by the time the ship arrived in another solar system, the passenger would be dead, and the weapons would have gone dormant decades before. Meaning no contamination when someone comes aboard to figure out why it didn't respond to hails, and then crapping their pants when they realized what could have happened.
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Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by kzt   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:39 pm

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It's really not at all clear, based on what David has published, what happened during the war. The Scrags yes, who did what after is unclear. I tend to suspect that the war would have been too short and intense to have some of the things that people have implied happen.

Once you've blown down the orbital infrastructure on day 1 and the power grid world wide goes down on day 2 or 3 along with the 50 largest cities on both sides things just don't get any better.
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Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:32 pm

TFLYTSNBN

kzt wrote:It's really not at all clear, based on what David has published, what happened during the war. The Scrags yes, who did what after is unclear. I tend to suspect that the war would have been too short and intense to have some of the things that people have implied happen.

Once you've blown down the orbital infrastructure on day 1 and the power grid world wide goes down on day 2 or 3 along with the 50 largest cities on both sides things just don't get any better.



I recall that interstellar travel was still STL or at least very infrequent. If other systems didn't blockade So they blockaded their own system​s.
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Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by drothgery   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:23 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:I recall that interstellar travel was still STL or at least very infrequent. If other systems didn't blockade So they blockaded their own system​s.


Still pre-Warshawski sail and impeller drive. Though grav waves were becoming sufficiently well mapped that interstellar commerce and war was begining to become possible in theory.
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Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by Kael Posavatz   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:49 pm

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drothgery wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:I recall that interstellar travel was still STL or at least very infrequent. If other systems didn't blockade So they blockaded their own system​s.


Still pre-Warshawski sail and impeller drive. Though grav waves were becoming sufficiently well mapped that interstellar commerce and war was begining to become possible in theory.


Possibly in theory, and still slow/infrequent at best. If any weaponized nanotech got off-planet, it probably killed the crew and passengers long before it reached anywhere interesting. Most diseases likewise killed their way through their hosts. So...what happens when a ghost ship arrives at it's destination? Boarding by parties in environmental (space) suits discover crew dead from disease, followed by disposal of the ship into the nearest handy nuclear furnace. Nanotech gets through the suit? Same deal.

I suppose it's possible someone cooked up something with a long enough incubation cycle that someone could get to another planet without noticing. But that kind of design would be for a weapon intended against another planet, rather than something repurposed (it doesn't do to give your enemies time to realize they've been hit and launch a retaliation strike, and such a germ would invite both), and my understanding is that no one was contemplating an interstellar war at that point.
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Re: What, no planet kablooey?
Post by cthia   » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:58 am

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Somtaaw wrote:
Dauntless wrote:I don't think sick refugess fleeing the sol system would much of a problem. from what little we have on that time period space had pretty much been abandaned long before the bugs were relesed.

Also, I can't immediately put my hands on reference that says old earth was infected, and from what i remember it was more nukes and chemical weapons making it on the verge of uninhabitable before Beowulf and the proto SL arrived to fix the planet.


Ukraine revealed the Scrag supersoldiers, Europe responded with Biological weapons, China retaliated with Chemical weapons AND their own supersoldiers, and North America unleashed weaponized nanotech; which is why everybody except Mesa thinks weaponized nanotech is insanity.

I recall reading somewhere, think it was Honor mentioned the Plague never would have made it beyond Sol, it was that well contained before Beowulf arrived to start the healing. So if Beowulf had never come to help....Earth would be dead, Mars almost certainly, the Belters would probably also be dead, and that's it.

From the description of what diseases were used, and how the nanotech weapons functioned, everything "ran hot" and had little to no dwell time. So even if some (rich, but infected) person managed to launch a spaceship and go into Cyrosleep, by the time the ship arrived in another solar system, the passenger would be dead, and the weapons would have gone dormant decades before. Meaning no contamination when someone comes aboard to figure out why it didn't respond to hails, and then crapping their pants when they realized what could have happened.


Wiki gives the diseases.

This post called me on my lack of understanding travel, or lack thereof, during the Final Wars. I keep forgetting that for some reason. It must have been a long lonesome trip for Alison and Company. The expedition's crew, btw, is one avenue I envisioned somewhere would have been bribed. Old Earth citizens were rich then as well.

But I never considered the incubation period of the diseases opposed to travel time.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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