Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 46 guests

Solarian League Navy Personal

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Solarian League Navy Personal
Post by svenhauke   » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:04 am

svenhauke
Lieutenant (Senior Grade)

Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:36 pm

the solarian league navy personal can be divided

between frontier fleet, which fights

and Battle fleet, which doesen t fight

i want to concentrate on battle fleet personal

battle fleet personal didn t sign up to fight

they signed up for a easy career in a cozy place.

play around with superdreadnoughts in wargames

and pick up women in spacerbars with their uniform

have a sure career and earn a bit of dollars with shady deals

now Battle Fleet lost about 3 million people... they got killed

no one in battle fleet signed up to get killed

the worst they signed up for was killing upty neobarbs with superior force and technology...

not get killed by same

so i susspect once the news of what happened to the fleet attacking in the second battle of manticore

reaches the rank and file of battle fleet

they will quit

was nice while it lastet, but i didn t sign up for this

i suspect that about 2/3 to 90% of battlefleet personal will quit in the 1st 3 month after the news of the 2nd battle of manticore
Top
Re: Solarian League Navy Personal
Post by Greentea   » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:46 am

Greentea
Commander

Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

svenhauke wrote:the solarian league navy personal can be divided

between frontier fleet, which fights

and Battle fleet, which doesen t fight

i want to concentrate on battle fleet personal

battle fleet personal didn t sign up to fight

they signed up for a easy career in a cozy place.

play around with superdreadnoughts in wargames

and pick up women in spacerbars with their uniform

have a sure career and earn a bit of dollars with shady deals

now Battle Fleet lost about 3 million people... they got killed

no one in battle fleet signed up to get killed

the worst they signed up for was killing upty neobarbs with superior force and technology...

not get killed by same

so i susspect once the news of what happened to the fleet attacking in the second battle of manticore

reaches the rank and file of battle fleet

they will quit

was nice while it lastet, but i didn t sign up for this

i suspect that about 2/3 to 90% of battlefleet personal will quit in the 1st 3 month after the news of the 2nd battle of manticore


That is if the high brass and Mandarins publicize the defeat without trying to spin it or disguise the facts. That is very unlikely. If any news does get out, they will try to place the blame on the treachery of Beowulf aiding Manticore and Haven. Obviously a bunch of neobarbs couldn't defeat Battle Fleet without the help of a traitorous, technologically superior core world. Now Battle Fleet has been ordered to attack Beowulf and punish the traitors in charge of the government there and return them to the true light of the Solarian League and keep Beowulf from seceding from the League.
Cup of tea? Yes, please.
Top
Re: Solarian League Navy Personal
Post by svenhauke   » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:53 am

svenhauke
Lieutenant (Senior Grade)

Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:36 pm

noncoms don t belive their officers when they tell shit

maybe the mandarins can lie to the officers, no chance with the ranks

3 million dead ... don t care why im gone

im not on the next ride to death

and when the 1st 5% leave it will be a stampede

battlefleet didn t sign up to fight

battlefleet sure didn t sign up to die
Top
Re: Solarian League Navy Personal
Post by Hutch   » Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:05 pm

Hutch
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1831
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:40 pm
Location: Huntsville, Alabama y'all

svenhauke wrote:noncoms don t belive their officers when they tell shit

maybe the mandarins can lie to the officers, no chance with the ranks

3 million dead ... don t care why im gone

im not on the next ride to death

and when the 1st 5% leave it will be a stampede

battlefleet didn t sign up to fight

battlefleet sure didn t sign up to die


First of all, welcome back to the forum, svenhauke (I see that you signed up in 2014, so you've already had your first Old Tillman on the house, so you'll be buying the next round....)

I am guessing (and am willing to be proven wrong) that English is not your first language. We get along fine with folks who write...interesting English here, just take your time and capitalize/puncuate and all will be well.

That said...I don't disagree that most members of Battle Fleet (from lowest crewman to Admiral) never figured on having to actually fight a battle, moreover a battle where they are the underdogs, but to date they have fought and conducted themselves (at least at the crew level) as professionals, so I am not quite a sure as you are that they will begin to desert en-masse.

However, as has been mentioned in another thread, as planets either leave the SL or (in the Protectorates) begin to rebel against the OFS/FF/Transtellars, I can see a number of resignations by crew-people from those planets with the resulting morale and efficiency decrease.

Between those that don't want to fight and those who no longer have a reason to fight...as I said on the other thread and has you postulate here, the Grand Alliance may not have to do all that much fighting with the ISLN; it may fall apart to it's own divisions....

We shall see, eventually.
***********************************************
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow.

What? Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here! Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM! -LT. Cmdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5
Top
Re: Solarian League Navy Personal
Post by svenhauke   » Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:37 pm

svenhauke
Lieutenant (Senior Grade)

Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:36 pm

what i think is that until the 2nd battle of manticore

the solarians could keep a propaganda war up, saying that crandal got trapped, but with 400 SD´s almost 20% of the solarian leagues SD fleet lost in 1 battle ... no chance

the solarian league has lost about 25% of its active wall of battle for no looses on manticoran side, every sailor in the solarian league will be tottaly shocked

they are going to run like the rats they are

the next time sln gets ordered to fight the GA theres going to be mutiny

the solarian league buys people it does not deserve alligance
Top
Re: Solarian League Navy Personal
Post by n7axw   » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:09 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5997
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

I'm not convinced we will see widespread desertions or even mutiny unless some fleet crews become convinced that their idiot of an admiral is deliberately leading them into a suicidal situation.

I agree with Hutch that the loyalty of personell from succeding planets could be suspect and you could see some resignations resulting from that.

But these people are professionals and the SLN is part of their identity. They will have strong loyalty to their comrades which is often the most immediate and compelling loyalty in any military organization. In addition to that loyalty to the League as an ideal will be stronger than amongst their civilian counterparts, if for no other reason the indoctrination that goes with being in any military organization.

The real rot seems to be in the officer corps, especially its upper ranks. But what little we know of the lower ranks, that is noncom and down, gives us no reason to believe that its personell will be less commited to its duty than any other military would be.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: Solarian League Navy Personal
Post by stewart   » Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:30 pm

stewart
Captain of the List

Posts: 715
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:54 pm
Location: Southern California, USA

n7axw wrote:I'm not convinced we will see widespread desertions or even mutiny unless some fleet crews become convinced that their idiot of an admiral is deliberately leading them into a suicidal situation.

I agree with Hutch that the loyalty of personell from succeding planets could be suspect and you could see some resignations resulting from that.

But these people are professionals and the SLN is part of their identity. They will have strong loyalty to their comrades which is often the most immediate and compelling loyalty in any military organization. In addition to that loyalty to the League as an ideal will be stronger than amongst their civilian counterparts, if for no other reason the indoctrination that goes with being in any military organization.

The real rot seems to be in the officer corps, especially its upper ranks. But what little we know of the lower ranks, that is noncom and down, gives us no reason to believe that its personell will be less commited to its duty than any other military would be.

Don



--------

Agreed --

Although if a sector "opts out" there may be some requests to transfer to the officer's / enlisted's System Defense Force.

-- Stewart
Top
Re: Solarian League Navy Personal
Post by JeffEngel   » Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:57 pm

JeffEngel
Admiral

Posts: 2074
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:06 pm

n7axw wrote:I'm not convinced we will see widespread desertions or even mutiny unless some fleet crews become convinced that their idiot of an admiral is deliberately leading them into a suicidal situation.

...

The real rot seems to be in the officer corps, especially its upper ranks. But what little we know of the lower ranks, that is noncom and down, gives us no reason to believe that its personell will be less commited to its duty than any other military would be.

Don


The long-service personnel will be people who have come to accept the nature of that officer corps though. They may have cherished the ideal of the League when they enlisted, and had it reinforced during training, but since then, they've had decades to discover this isn't the SLN of their dreams of youth - it's the SLN of Joseph Byng, Sandra Crandall, Massimo Filareta, Rajampet Rajani. It's a tool of the OFS, of the transtellars - at its best, of corrupt bureaucrats and decadent and corrupt naval dynasties.

Some of them are carrying on out of professionalism. Some - few - may combine that professionalism with some degree of patriotism for a nation they know does not deserve it, like many officers (maybe NCO's too) of the late PRN, in the last years of the Legislaturalists or the CPS. But a lot of them, I'd figure most, are carrying on because they can live with that SLN. They can claim their own smaller cut of the take, benefit from petty corruption. That, and/or they saw it as a job with tremendous security, security that has decisively ended. (Think of the miscreants aboard HMS Wayfarer in Silesia, who'd been kept by the RMN despite being disciplinary hazards precisely because they needed every capable body for the war - and those capable bodies, in this case, had zero interest in participating in a war when they realized it was on and serious.)

In the case of either of those motivations, the seasoned NCO's are not sorts ready to die for the League. They may, at best, not have an effective plan for getting out of the line of fire, and may well be doing their professional best deep inside a superdreadnought that's become a target. But if they had a shot at a mutiny that would deliver them from being under RMN guns, they'd leap at it.
Top
Re: Solarian League Navy Personal
Post by Yow   » Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:25 pm

Yow
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 348
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:32 pm
Location: North Carolina, United States

No idea what direction David Weber will drive the SLN, but I say you're wrong. History says you're wrong. As long as the government supports its service people and takes care of them. They won't run. They won't be apt to stupidly run straight in anymore but they're not going to fold as easily as that. You still have frontier fleet. The dead wood is being sifted out of Battlefleet. If the GA gives the League any time to breath. That sleepy dragon will awake. Even knowing they were going to die they stayed at their posts and fought at Spindle and Second Battle of Manticore till the survivors were ordered to surrender. They didn't break off like Pavel Young did. Now they have to learn to fight at a disadvantage due to SLN inferiority. You may wind up with North vs South as the League shakes down but if there is anything left they'll fight. The GA has to break them up and fast. War fighting the League is inferior but there education and technology base is there to give them the comeback they'll need. Haven gutted itself and look how they still came back. There is that something in each of us when called upon will answer back not out of cowardice.

Cthia's father ~ "Son, do not cater to the common belief that a person has to earn respect. That is not true. You should give every person respect right from the start. What a person has to earn is your continued respect!"
Top
Re: Solarian League Navy Personal
Post by n7axw   » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:23 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5997
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

Yow wrote:No idea what direction David Weber will drive the SLN, but I say you're wrong. History says you're wrong. As long as the government supports its service people and takes care of them. They won't run. They won't be apt to stupidly run straight in anymore but they're not going to fold as easily as that. You still have frontier fleet. The dead wood is being sifted out of Battlefleet. If the GA gives the League any time to breath. That sleepy dragon will awake. Even knowing they were going to die they stayed at their posts and fought at Spindle and Second Battle of Manticore till the survivors were ordered to surrender. They didn't break off like Pavel Young did. Now they have to learn to fight at a disadvantage due to SLN inferiority. You may wind up with North vs South as the League shakes down but if there is anything left they'll fight. The GA has to break them up and fast. War fighting the League is inferior but there education and technology base is there to give them the comeback they'll need. Haven gutted itself and look how they still came back. There is that something in each of us when called upon will answer back not out of cowardice.


Nicely said. Germany had good people in unoform under Hitler who fought right up to the end Things like perceived honor and duty as well as loyalty to one's buddies keep soldiers in the trenches long after it stops making any sense for them to do so.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top

Return to Honorverse