Let's Talk About Love: the 'verse's defining relationships

JeffEngel wrote:

cthia wrote:So where does that leave Eloise?

Pfft. The two of them may go all stupid-noble about it, or stupid-denialist, but any which way, it's going to be stupid-stupid. The two of them just delivered Haven from decades of war and centuries of national slow suicide. If they were caught in public so much as holding hands, the public would be dancing in the streets and shouting obscene suggestions crying for joy.

Not necessarily. There is a rare but real kind of friendship and yes, love, between a man and a woman which is not romantic. I can speak personally to this: in my case, I enjoyed a friendship with a lady lasting over 30 years without any hint on either side that either of us wanted the relationship to move in a romantic direction.

Tom and Eloise might well have this kind of love.

timmopussycat wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:Pfft. The two of them may go all stupid-noble about it, or stupid-denialist, but any which way, it's going to be stupid-stupid. The two of them just delivered Haven from decades of war and centuries of national slow suicide. If they were caught in public so much as holding hands, the public would be dancing in the streets and shouting obscene suggestions crying for joy.

Not necessarily. There is a rare but real kind of friendship and yes, love, between a man and a woman which is not romantic. I can speak personally to this: in my case, I enjoyed a friendship with a lady lasting over 30 years without any hint on either side that either of us wanted the relationship to move in a romantic direction.

Tom and Eloise might well have this kind of love.

Oh, I have no doubt that Tom Theisman and Eloise Pritchart love each other - quite deeply, in fact. Profoundly, I should say.

Nor do I doubt that they are, as of the battle of Lovat, each other's primary confidantes, chief supporters, and closest friends.

They have clung to each other through the worst the universe could throw at them. They have lived their worst nightmares and brightest dreams side by side. They are each other's shining lights, even when the night is space-black around them and all hope seems lost.

Will it ever turn sexual between them? I don't know. It could. If Eloise Pritchart could ever fall in love again, with anyone, it could only ever be Thomas Theisman.

But - and here's what will make all of your jaws drop -

I don't care.

Whether it ever goes romantic, whether theirs has been a story of romance blossoming from the ashes or "simply" a platonic love more powerful than almost any other, this relationship is already so fulfilling, so wonderful, so perfect just the way it is. If they do fall in love - or have already fallen in love and find their way to each other - I will scream and cry and thrill for them as much as my heart will allow. And if they don't, I will simply continue to love them for exactly what they are - and what they are to each other.

RFC, take a bow.

As far as current relationships go, how about Mateo & Abigail?

They have been through the fire together and you have a big San Martino backing up a Grayson dragon girl. Both of them have that sort of creative "kick your butt and you'll never see the boot coming" mentality.

Keep in mind he resigned his commission in the Royal Marines to sign on as a lifelong bodyguard and companion for Abigail in the Andrew Lafollet model.

Although I personally I think that when she's not Navy / retired, she oughtta take care of that fellar's marital status as well.

SharkHunter wrote:As far as current relationships go, how about Mateo & Abigail?

They have been through the fire together and you have a big San Martino backing up a Grayson dragon girl. Both of them have that sort of creative "kick your butt and you'll never see the boot coming" mentality.

Keep in mind he resigned his commission in the Royal Marines to sign on as a lifelong bodyguard and companion for Abigail in the Andrew Lafollet model.

Although I personally I think that when she's not Navy / retired, she oughtta take care of that fellar's marital status as well.

Except for a certain thing called professionalism. Remember the movie "Bodyguard," Whitney Houston and Kevin Costner? I wondered why it isn't a good idea. After all, bodyguards would sacrifice their own lives for their charge. But puzzling over it, it seems to make good sense. The duties of a bodyguard are many. Staking out a place, research, etc. However, an intimate relationship with your charge could lead to certain distractions at the wrong time -- kissing, when you should be scanning the area. Mateo and Abigail could indeed fall in love, but I would wager that either he or Steadholder Owens would insist that he be replaced as bodyguard.

timmopussycat wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:Pfft. The two of them may go all stupid-noble about it, or stupid-denialist, but any which way, it's going to be stupid-stupid. The two of them just delivered Haven from decades of war and centuries of national slow suicide. If they were caught in public so much as holding hands, the public would be dancing in the streets and shouting obscene suggestions crying for joy.

Not necessarily. There is a rare but real kind of friendship and yes, love, between a man and a woman which is not romantic. I can speak personally to this: in my case, I enjoyed a friendship with a lady lasting over 30 years without any hint on either side that either of us wanted the relationship to move in a romantic direction.

Tom and Eloise might well have this kind of love.

roseandheather wrote:Oh, I have no doubt that Tom Theisman and Eloise Pritchart love each other - quite deeply, in fact. Profoundly, I should say.

Nor do I doubt that they are, as of the battle of Lovat, each other's primary confidantes, chief supporters, and closest friends.

They have clung to each other through the worst the universe could throw at them. They have lived their worst nightmares and brightest dreams side by side. They are each other's shining lights, even when the night is space-black around them and all hope seems lost.

Will it ever turn sexual between them? I don't know. It could. If Eloise Pritchart could ever fall in love again, with anyone, it could only ever be Thomas Theisman.

But - and here's what will make all of your jaws drop -

I don't care.

Whether it ever goes romantic, whether theirs has been a story of romance blossoming from the ashes or "simply" a platonic love more powerful than almost any other, this relationship is already so fulfilling, so wonderful, so perfect just the way it is. If they do fall in love - or have already fallen in love and find their way to each other - I will scream and cry and thrill for them as much as my heart will allow. And if they don't, I will simply continue to love them for exactly what they are - and what they are to each other.

RFC, take a bow.

Since they know each other so well, I think the capacity to play wingperson/matchmaker would come into play.

"Tom, have I got the perfect person for you to meet," with a warm smile and sparkling topaz eyes.

cthia wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:As far as current relationships go, how about Mateo & Abigail?

They have been through the fire together and you have a big San Martino backing up a Grayson dragon girl. Both of them have that sort of creative "kick your butt and you'll never see the boot coming" mentality.

Keep in mind he resigned his commission in the Royal Marines to sign on as a lifelong bodyguard and companion for Abigail in the Andrew Lafollet model.

Although I personally I think that when she's not Navy / retired, she oughtta take care of that fellar's marital status as well.

Except for a certain thing called professionalism. Remember the movie "Bodyguard," Whitney Houston and Kevin Costner? I wondered why it isn't a good idea. After all, bodyguards would sacrifice their own lives for their charge. But puzzling over it, it seems to make good sense. The duties of a bodyguard are many. Staking out a place, research, etc. However, an intimate relationship with your charge could lead to certain distractions at the wrong time -- kissing, when you should be scanning the area. Mateo and Abigail could indeed fall in love, but I would wager that either he or Steadholder Owens would insist that he be replaced as bodyguard.

Well that's why they have to be all done with 10th Fleet ops, etc. Besides, having Mateo AND another feller looking out for Abigail probably wouldn't bother the good Steadholder, either. Get past the 1st bad dog, deal with Mateo. Sorta like trying to get past anyone to go after Allison Harrington might bring out the former Marine inside Alfred, or past Zilwicki to go after Cachat. Not a good tactical plan, if you know what I mean.

SharkHunter wrote:

cthia wrote:Except for a certain thing called professionalism. Remember the movie "Bodyguard," Whitney Houston and Kevin Costner? I wondered why it isn't a good idea. After all, bodyguards would sacrifice their own lives for their charge. But puzzling over it, it seems to make good sense. The duties of a bodyguard are many. Staking out a place, research, etc. However, an intimate relationship with your charge could lead to certain distractions at the wrong time -- kissing, when you should be scanning the area. Mateo and Abigail could indeed fall in love, but I would wager that either he or Steadholder Owens would insist that he be replaced as bodyguard.

Well that's why they have to be all done with 10th Fleet ops, etc. Besides, having Mateo AND another feller looking out for Abigail probably wouldn't bother the good Steadholder, either. Get past the 1st bad dog, deal with Mateo. Sorta like trying to get past anyone to go after Allison Harrington might bring out the former Marine inside Alfred, or past Zilwicki to go after Cachat. Not a good tactical plan, if you know what I mean.

Honestly, I just don't see it. Oh, Mateo pulling a LaFollet and falling for Abigail, certainly, but a mutual affair? I don't think Mateo would allow it even if Abigail did return his feelings - it's a dangerous distraction to his only purpose, which is protecting her.

And Abigail... one of the things that I've loved most about her is that, military or no military, she is in almost every other way a proper Grayson princess. She is elegant, well-spoken, well-mannered - a lady in every sense of the word, who just happens to be implacably deadly behind a tactical console. This is, after all, a girl who utterly refused to concede her femininity by cutting her hair, even when doing so would have eliminated both literal and metaphorical headaches.

And I don't think Abigail, Miss Owens, would ever even entertain the idea of falling in love with her bodyguard. I think she will look to her own station - to the aristocracy, born or self-made, of Manticore or Haven. Not out of any snobbery on her part, Tester knows, but because she - like Michael Oversteegen, and Aivars Terekhov, and Augustus Khumalo - is an aristocrat to the bone, with an aristocrat's sense of responsibility and noblesse oblige. It's a fundamental sense of self that only those risen to rarefied heights - by birth or by deed, but most likely for Abigail, by both at once - can truly understand, and I think she will fall in love with someone who understands that about her because they share it, too.

But that's just me.

There should be a wall somewhere as a Naval museum with special ship's names representing the men and women who died trusting, loving and fighting her. A long wall that would be. The Great Wall of Manticore.

The Royal Manticoran Navy List of Honor, ship names kept constantly in commission, new construction replacing old, or replacing losses.

SharkHunter wrote:

cthia wrote:Except for a certain thing called professionalism. Remember the movie "Bodyguard," Whitney Houston and Kevin Costner? I wondered why it isn't a good idea. After all, bodyguards would sacrifice their own lives for their charge. But puzzling over it, it seems to make good sense. The duties of a bodyguard are many. Staking out a place, research, etc. However, an intimate relationship with your charge could lead to certain distractions at the wrong time -- kissing, when you should be scanning the area. Mateo and Abigail could indeed fall in love, but I would wager that either he or Steadholder Owens would insist that he be replaced as bodyguard.

Well that's why they have to be all done with 10th Fleet ops, etc. Besides, having Mateo AND another feller looking out for Abigail probably wouldn't bother the good Steadholder, either. Get past the 1st bad dog, deal with Mateo. Sorta like trying to get past anyone to go after Allison Harrington might bring out the former Marine inside Alfred, or past Zilwicki to go after Cachat. Not a good tactical plan, if you know what I mean.

roseandheather wrote:Honestly, I just don't see it. Oh, Mateo pulling a LaFollet and falling for Abigail, certainly, but a mutual affair? I don't think Mateo would allow it even if Abigail did return his feelings - it's a dangerous distraction to his only purpose, which is protecting her.

And Abigail... one of the things that I've loved most about her is that, military or no military, she is in almost every other way a proper Grayson princess. She is elegant, well-spoken, well-mannered - a lady in every sense of the word, who just happens to be implacably deadly behind a tactical console. This is, after all, a girl who utterly refused to concede her femininity by cutting her hair, even when doing so would have eliminated both literal and metaphorical headaches.

And I don't think Abigail, Miss Owens, would ever even entertain the idea of falling in love with her bodyguard. I think she will look to her own station - to the aristocracy, born or self-made, of Manticore or Haven. Not out of any snobbery on her part, Tester knows, but because she - like Michael Oversteegen, and Aivars Terekhov, and Augustus Khumalo - is an aristocrat to the bone, with an aristocrat's sense of responsibility and noblesse oblige. It's a fundamental sense of self that only those risen to rarefied heights - by birth or by deed, but most likely for Abigail, by both at once - can truly understand, and I think she will fall in love with someone who understands that about her because they share it, too.

But that's just me.

I would wager that RFC agrees with you Rose, since a Mateo&Abigail finding the needle in the naked haystack would be similar to Andrew&Honor.

David Weber wrote:
Then, of course, probably, I think, I suspect that if Andrew had not been a Grayson armsman and if he had been a Prolong recipient, then his relationship with Honor might have been much closer to her relationship with Hamish.

An interview with Weber.

You know, something I've always wondered. I know how Beauty and the Beast came to be. But I can't figure out the why. What did those two respond to in each other, especially considering the rank and age difference? Not to mention the personality difference. What fueled the chemistry? Actually, it seems that Harkness would be the frightening type. How do you befriend a hexapuma?