Question about tactics at the end of AoV

It appears that the government of the SKM is based roughly on that of the United Kingdom, with the exception that the Prime Minister must come from and be approved by the House of Lords.

The question in my mid is that when it became apparent the High Ridge and co were not going to cooperate in the forming of a coalition government, did not Willie Alexander in his guise as the current Prime Minster (until he loses a vote of confidence in the Lords), excuse himself, leaving the Queen to argue with High Ridge, et al, call a quick news conference, and announce, that due to the overwhelming successes of Eighth Fleet and the imminent end of hostilities due to the anticipated surrender of Haven, the state of emergency had eased to the point that it was time to call a general election, scheduled for 6 weeks hence.

Undoubtedly, High Ridge, et al, would scream about the high handed exercise of power, but that leaves them in the unenviable position of arguing against a general election on the grounds that Haven wasn't beaten yet, which means that even if they do get into power, they have a great deal of trouble accepting the truce offer without calling for a general election immediately. And after the general election, the San Martin nobles are seated, and oops - Willie Alexander is back in power.\

Problems with this scenario?

fallsfromtrees wrote:It appears that the government of the SKM is based roughly on that of the United Kingdom, with the exception that the Prime Minister must come from and be approved by the House of Lords.

The question in my mid is that when it became apparent the High Ridge and co were not going to cooperate in the forming of a coalition government, did not Willie Alexander in his guise as the current Prime Minster (until he loses a vote of confidence in the Lords), excuse himself, leaving the Queen to argue with High Ridge, et al, call a quick news conference, and announce, that due to the overwhelming successes of Eighth Fleet and the imminent end of hostilities due to the anticipated surrender of Haven, the state of emergency had eased to the point that it was time to call a general election, scheduled for 6 weeks hence.

Undoubtedly, High Ridge, et al, would scream about the high handed exercise of power, but that leaves them in the unenviable position of arguing against a general election on the grounds that Haven wasn't beaten yet, which means that even if they do get into power, they have a great deal of trouble accepting the truce offer without calling for a general election immediately. And after the general election, the San Martin nobles are seated, and oops - Willie Alexander is back in power.\

Problems with this scenario?

Reading it again I don't think Willie Alexander ever was PM. Yes it says "the person who held that post [Chancellor of the Exchequer] was not only the second ranking member of the Cabinet but the individual who took over as Prime Minister if something happened to the incumbent."

But it goes on to say "But that was under normal circumstances, and these were anything but normal." Giving me the impression that it wasn't an automatic assumption (like a vice president) but rather a custom that the current Chancellor of the Exchequer would be voted in as PM in the event that anything happened to the PM.

But with Cromarty dead, and with him the votes of those Lords who had only individual loyalty to him, there weren't the votes to confirm Willie Alexander as PM. So he can't stand down from the office because it was never his.


Besides, if it was his couldn't he have immediately scheduled the next general election?
I believe the PM can personally schedule those - even it he got kicked out tomorrow I don't think that can cancel a scheduled election. And this election would seat the San Martin peers and likely give control of Lords back to the Centrists coalition. No need to try to do it indirectly by resigning.

The answer, I think, is that although it is correct to say that the Star Kingdom is roughly like the UK, that is not completely true across the board.

the story "I Will build a House of Steel" the comment is made that while the monarch is not completely free to choose the PM, it is also true that the Lord cannot foist off upon the monarch a prime minister whom the monarch finds completely unpalatable either. The comment is then made that the opposition feared that if Roger were crowded, he would probably be willing to completely forego a ministry for the short term to make his point.

Elizabeth doesn't choose to take that point of view so she ends up with High Ridge. It isn't that Elizabeth is at all wimpy. The treecats didn't name her "Soul of Steel" for nothing. But she apparently feels that High Ridge's arrogance and general incompetence will eventually lead to his downfall and that it would be better to let events play themselves out rather than provoke a constitutional crisis she might lose. She does not foresee the price that Manticore would pay when High Ridge's policies lead back into a war with Haven after his ministry downsizes the navy and returns to the good old days of cronyism for the uniformed services.

In retrospect, she should have taken High Ridge on right away. But, of course that is 20-20 hindsight after the water has gone under the bridge.

I've wondered if a solution to Manticore's problems there would not be to invest the power to call elections in the monarch rather than letting the ministry play games with it. But then on the other hand, the monarch could play games with it. So who knows.

Don

Duckk wrote:http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/entry/Harrington/43/1

Thanks, Duckk. That summarized things nicely.

Don

Duckk wrote:http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/entry/Harrington/43/1

This clears things up considerably. It seems to imply, although it is not explicitly stated that it takes a majority vote of the Lords to force a general election. IIRC there was a provision that general elections had to be held every 5 years (ala the United Kingdom), but that that requirement had been deferred during the state of emergency, and the the High Ridge government was waiting to call a general election until the time that they felt it was propitious. The question therefore is the decision to call a general election made by the Prime Minister or by the House of Lords?

Granted that a general election at the time of the Cromarty assassination would not have improved the Centrists position in the Commons - that was already solid, but it would have allowed for the seating of the San Martin nobles, which would have affected the position in the Lords - given we don't know the numbers of Lords or the number that were to be added from San Martin, we can't tell if it would have shifted the results in the Lords sufficiently, or just made High Ridge that much more vulnerable.

Duckk wrote:http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/entry/Harrington/33/1

Do you have all of the infodumps memorized

From the infodump:

The House of Commons is on a regular schedule... sort of. By law, no more than 4 Manticoran years may pass between general elections. That, however, is the maximum amount of time which may elapse between them; the current government can, at its own discretion, call a general election whenever it chooses (although the law requires a minimum period for campaigns to be conducted), and the Prime Minister (a member of the House of Lords) is the head of the current government. That means that a peer of the realm is in charge of deciding when to hold an election for the House of Commons. For obvious reasons, the question of exactly when to schedule such an election is a matter of very careful calculation in the Star Kingdom's political processes.

As a new government had not been formed yet, Willie was the head of government, and could have called a general election. This would have allowed the San Martin nobles to be seated (a refusal on the part of the Lords to seat all of the new nobles would have been taken very badly by a great number of people, although I guess High Ridge was stupid or short-sighted enough to do just that).

I don't think Willie Alexander ever held the position of PM prior to the collapse of High Ridge government. The text in AoV says that he was the "logical successor", which implies that he didn't hold the position after Cromarty was killed. The position was simply considered vacant until a new PM was approved. At the very worst, he was an interim holder, with sharply reduced powers, in order to keep the government running.

Duckk wrote:http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/entry/Harrington/33/1

Hmm. Now rereading that I'm less certain of the exact mechanism by which the "current government" can call for elections.

* Can the PM, as head of that government, do so unilaterally?
* Does it have to be a cabinet agreement/vote to do so?
* Or is it actually a separate vote in Lords that the current government (by virtue of it's mandatory working majority) is just expected to pass?