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Augustus & Estelle: The Story of a Romance?

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Re: Augustus & Estelle: The Story of a Romance?
Post by roseandheather   » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:16 pm

roseandheather
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cthia wrote:Well Rose, you know, near-death experiences has a wonderful side-effect of sobering one's mind and focusing one's thoughts. I always wanted to see Khumalo operate under Honor just to see how he'd handle things working with the Salamander. Maybe another monumental defense of Basilisk Station where Khumalo is deemed lost, but somehow survives. And if Khumalo and Estelle both think the other is lost but they both survive? Well, that'll send them running to each other like one of them won the lottery. The love-lottery.

Disaster often fuels love.

Remember Hamish stroking the monitor when sweet Sally came back to him?

I can see the two of 'em pining over each other via long range, Khumalo's wounded ship limping back to orbit, romantic fashion.

"Oh Estelle."

"Oh Auggie."

:roll:


'Auggie'??

:o

I think he'd hit you. 'Gus' will do quite nicely. 8-)

...that said... hint hint nudge nudge wink wink, RFC!! :mrgreen:
~*~


I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise
"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."
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Re: Augustus & Estelle: The Story of a Romance?
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:47 am

cthia
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roseandheather wrote:I've speculated - loudly, and at length - about the possibility of my darling diminutive Governor falling in love with my unexpectedly badass Station Commander. And I've explained - loudly, and at length - just why I believe this pairing works so well.

But we haven't spent much time talking about the how.

So, for those of you out there who also think they're meant to be - and I know you exist - how do you think it would happen? And when? How sturdy a cluestick will/would it take to convince Augustus that she's actually in love with him? How long will Estelle wait before she just pins him up against a wall and snogs him stupid? Will Michelle Henke and/or Victoria Saunders and/or Loretta Shoupe and/or Gregor O'Shaughnessey get sick of the mutual pining and moony calf-eyes and just lock them in a closet until they sort themselves out? And what do you think it would take to wake the two of them up to the fact that they've been slowly falling in love ever since Monica?

Have at ye olde speculation, mateys!

More importantly, that cluestick needs to come with an owners manual. "Augustus, you're about to be beaten with your own cluestick because you wouldn't recognize love if you were stuck together with it for hours on end like two peas in an escape pod!"

Sorry Rose, but Gus' ten-gallon hat is too big for his two-liter brain. Some men would find it hard to fathom that such a beautiful Estelle could be in love with them.

Some women would have to take matters into their own hands and ... (explain to me about the pinning up against the wall and snogging thing again. Slowly this time.) :D

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Augustus & Estelle: The Story of a Romance?
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:34 am

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cthia wrote:
roseandheather wrote:I've speculated - loudly, and at length - about the possibility of my darling diminutive Governor falling in love with my unexpectedly badass Station Commander. And I've explained - loudly, and at length - just why I believe this pairing works so well.

But we haven't spent much time talking about the how.

So, for those of you out there who also think they're meant to be - and I know you exist - how do you think it would happen? And when? How sturdy a cluestick will/would it take to convince Augustus that she's actually in love with him? How long will Estelle wait before she just pins him up against a wall and snogs him stupid? Will Michelle Henke and/or Victoria Saunders and/or Loretta Shoupe and/or Gregor O'Shaughnessey get sick of the mutual pining and moony calf-eyes and just lock them in a closet until they sort themselves out? And what do you think it would take to wake the two of them up to the fact that they've been slowly falling in love ever since Monica?

Have at ye olde speculation, mateys!

More importantly, that cluestick needs to come with an owners manual. "Augustus, you're about to be beaten with your own cluestick because you wouldn't recognize love if you were stuck together with it for hours on end like two peas in an escape pod!"

Sorry Rose, but Gus' ten-gallon hat is too big for his two-liter brain. Some men would find it hard to fathom that such a beautiful Estelle could be in love with them.

Some women would have to take matters into their own hands and ... (explain to me about the pinning up against the wall and snogging thing again. Slowly this time.) :D

At this point I think that hitting Gus with a big enough clue stick hard enough to actually get his attention would give him a concussion that would blank his memory.
========================

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Re: Augustus & Estelle: The Story of a Romance?
Post by roseandheather   » Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:52 am

roseandheather
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fallsfromtrees wrote:At this point I think that hitting Gus with a big enough clue stick hard enough to actually get his attention would give him a concussion that would blank his memory.


I can't even begin to express how much I wish I could think you were wrong.
~*~


I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise
"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."
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Re: Augustus & Estelle: The Story of a Romance?
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:09 pm

cthia
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Perhaps, that thing that was the source of the initial friction between them is still internally rubbing Gus the wrong way. What exactly was the reason of the tension between them initially?

Estelle could always turn to the Honorverse equivalent of the 'Craig's List.'

"Female, 60+, Talbot Quadrant, sandalwood complexion, black hair, pronounced epicanthic fold who looks not a single day over 25, looking for a man that doesn't need a cluestick, like an officer named Gus."

How old is Estelle?

Estelle is said to have a pronounced epicanthic fold. Does anyone know anyone personally with this 'condition?'

A search yields Amanda Bynes, regarding her surgery to remove it. I never knew it existed before RFC's Estelle.
http://www.rhinoplastyinseattle.com/blo ... a-nose-job

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Augustus & Estelle: The Story of a Romance?
Post by roseandheather   » Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:20 pm

roseandheather
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Location: Republic of Haven

cthia wrote:Perhaps, that thing that was the source of the initial friction between them is still internally rubbing Gus the wrong way. What exactly was the reason of the tension between them initially?

Estelle could always turn to the Honorverse equivalent of the 'Craig's List.'

"Female, 60+, Talbot Quadrant, sandalwood complexion, black hair, pronounced epicanthic fold who looks not a single day over 25, looking for a man that doesn't need a cluestick, like an officer named Gus."

How old is Estelle?

Estelle is said to have a pronounced epicanthic fold. Does anyone know anyone personally with this 'condition?'

A search yields Amanda Bynes, regarding her surgery to remove it. I never knew it existed before RFC's Estelle.
http://www.rhinoplastyinseattle.com/blo ... a-nose-job


Cthia, "pronounced epicanthic fold" in this context is used to mean, "has Japanese eyes, as her surname might suggest". :lol: ;)

We don't know how old she is, but I get the impression that she's about ten to twenty years Honor's senior. We also have no idea of Khumalo's age - I suspect he's a bit older than his rank-peers as most of his seniority came due to time-in-grade, as opposed to the out-of-the-zone promotions for someone like, say, Oversteegen.

The tension was mostly on her side, from what I can recall - you know, the tension I wrote a goddamn essay on which wound up getting the stamp of approval from RFC himself? :mrgreen: I don't think he had any particular animosity toward her, except perhaps in response to hers toward him.
~*~


I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise
"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."
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Re: Augustus & Estelle: The Story of a Romance?
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:01 pm

cthia
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Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Now that you mentioned it Rose, I do remember asking this same question. So I went a-hunting it ...



cthia wrote:
Can someone enlighten me as to why Estelle Matsuko initially disliked Khumalo?




roseandheather wrote:
Oh, God in heaven, can I ever.

Okay. So remember how, back in OBS, His Royal Assness Pavel Young basically did jack shit to help Estelle with - well, anything? How he was politically connected but not particularly good at his job, and how he made her job considerably harder, instead of easier like he was supposed to?

Well, so does Dame Estelle Matsuko.

You have to remember that, until the Monica crisis hit, Khumalo - as much as I love him - had not proven at all gifted with imagination or moral courage. He was a political appointee by the Janacek Admiralty because he was an aristocrat in his own right, a relative of the Queen's, and - critically - a firm member of the Conservative Association.

By this point, we had met Michael Oversteegen, ergo we were aware that not all Conservatives were useless assholes. Dame Estelle had not, and given her prior experience with political appointees - particularly conservative ones - she was already predisposed not to like him. Remember, in OBS she saw Honor Harrington as the exception for Navy officers, not the rule. Honor changed that somewhat, but a lifelong distrust of political Navy officers doesn't go away overnight, and all that old mistrust came roaring back when she ended up with Khumalo, who - remember, again, this was before Monica - appeared to her to be yet another "Conservative Political Appointee Officer, Specimen #906", not "Augustus Khumalo, that guy who rode to Aivars Terekhov's aid without hesitation and told the Monican President to shove it up his ass and the ass of the horse he rode in on."

And Khumalo - darling man! - wasn't helping; he was a Conservative and not shy about it, and managed to open mouth insert foot more than once in diplomatic circles. Dame Estelle was basically thinking, "What in God's name did I do wrong to continually get saddled with conservative officers who make my job harder? Harringtonexceptedofcourse," and he really wasn't doing anything to prove her wrong, because he didn't know he could. Remember, he had been waiting for the White Haven Admiralty to yank him from his post - he'd only been sent there in the first place, after all, because it wasn't supposed to be an important military post. Diplomatic, yes - that's why they sent such a Foreign Office heavy hitter as Dame Estelle - but a Navy presence wasn't thought to be necessary beyond a token. So he was constantly on edge, knowing one wrong move would only hasten his dismissal but dead sure it was coming anyway, as well as knowing that anything that went wrong in the Talbott Quadrant, militarily speaking, was his responsibility, whether he knew about it or not. And so he overcompensated - see the early chapters of Shadow of Saganami.

It's also true that someone's preconceptions of you tends to affect how you yourself behave. If you know everyone thinks you're a mostly useless incompetent, what's to stop you from thinking you're a mostly useless incompetent? That was Khumalo's problem.

But Monica changed everything. When the flag went up at Monica, Khumalo knew he had two choices; he could do the right thing, or he could do the easy (and seemingly career-saving) thing. And in that moment, Augustus Khumalo found his courage. He said, "You know what? I don't give a damn what anyone else thinks of me. I was stationed out here to do a job, and I am by God going to do my job."

In that, Dame Estelle saw echoes of the first Navy officer she'd ever truly respected, and a switch flipped somewhere. Suddenly he wasn't "Conservative Political Appointee Officer, Specimen #906" to her any more - he was a man who had stood up and done what duty demanded of him, even if it would ruin his career, and they both saw him for what he truly was - but what neither of them knew he was until it came down to the most important choice of all.

And that is why Dame Estelle Matsuko disliked Augustus Khumalo, and how they became not only close friends but comrades-in-arms from Monica on. :mrgreen:
~*~


runsforcelery wrote:
Rose's analysis of Dame Estelle's initial attitude towards Khumalo is pretty much spot on. She does somewhat overestimate the Baroness' attitudes towards naval officers in general, but the fact that Estelle has a niece in BuShips fifteen or twenty years after meeting Honor doesn't necessarily mean that she's known "plenty" of good officers. I will concede that by this point in her career she's known a lot more good officers than bad officers, however. On the other hand, Khumalo was a political appointee to a naval station clearly regarded as of minor and secondary importance by the same Admiralty which had sent Pavel Young to Basilisk. I think it is, therefore, fair to suggest that her initial reaction to him most definitely was affected by her view of "political naval officers" and of the disastrous consequences of command appointments made on the basis of factional political policy. She'd been there, done that, and she had the T-shirt.

She hadn't studied Terekhov's record any more closely than she'd studied the records of any other naval officers assigned to the Talbott Quadrant, particularly since she didn't know he was coming ahead of time. On the other hand, Terekhov was well known in naval circles because of his actions at Hyacinth, and if you will recall, he had quite a successful Foreign Office career before returning to active duty after the outbreak of the actual shooting war. During that time, he and Dame Estelle had been working in the same field for the same superiors.

Rose's analysis of Khumalo's perception of himself — and the perceptions of him held by others — is pretty darned accurate, as is the moment at which others realize (even before he did) that he'd "found his moment." The fact that he was a distant relative of the Queen, that his membership in the Conservative Association made him (somewhat unquestioningly) acceptable to High Ridge and Janacek, and that the Talbott Sector was generally regarded as a place which required a competent administrator but not necessarily a competent military commander had, indeed, been the primary reasons for his appointment to Talbott in the first place. Of course, as Michael Oversteegen demonstrates, the Conservative Association has its own . . . political gradients within its membership, and Janacek and High Ridge would have been quite surprised if they'd discovered exactly what Augustus Khumalo's view of their policies truly was even prior to Monica.


For everyone's edification.

Thanks again, and again Rose.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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