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Why are wallers stumpy and destroyers svelte? | |
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by JeffEngel » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:03 pm | |
JeffEngel
Posts: 2074
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Is there any particular explanation for why smaller warships and larger warships don't have closer length:beam:draught ratios?
For instance - to take RMN designs from almost the same time and at the height of the "classic" warship design school, at either extreme of that size range: Samothrace SD: Introduced 1848 PD L: 1309m B: 190m D: 177m Falcon DD: Introduced 1851 PD L: 355m B: 42m D: 24m If we take each of them so that the length figure gets a value of 1 unit, the proportions run: Samothrace SD: 1:.145:.135 Falcon DD: 1:.118:.068 In particular, the DD is much flatter (draught about 7% of length as opposed to 13.5%), but the beam is still some 20% reduced too. The basic cigar shape with hammerheads is imposed by impeller mechanics. I'm not aware of variations on that shape depending on mass or volume that would force smaller ships to be flatter - if someone else has that, boom, it's answered. The larger ships would traditionally have much more emphasis on armor and on energy weapons, and the smaller ones on missiles. I can easily see more armor making something thicker, but the strongest difference has been in draught, and the thickest armor would be on the sides, increasing beam, since the tops and bottoms of a warship need trivial armor since the wedge protects them. So that would help explain the small beam increase but leave the much larger draught increase still looking for an explanation. I have the sneaking suspicion the meta reasons are so that ship profiles can be recognizable, and so that the smaller ones can convey sleekness. I just have to think that an in-universe explanation ought to exist too and I haven't found it or guessed it. |
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Re: Why are wallers stumpy and destroyers svelte? | |
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by Weird Harold » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:46 pm | |
Weird Harold
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Without doing a lot of tedious research. I suspect the number of decks each ship has is part of your answer. .
. . Answers! I got lots of answers! (Now if I could just find the right questions.) |
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Re: Why are wallers stumpy and destroyers svelte? | |
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by Duckk » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:50 pm | |
Duckk
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I'm not in a position to find the exact reference, but it was mentioned somewhere that light ships emphasized saving as much tonnage where they could. That was to maximize their compensator effectiveness. As a result, they have flattened central hulls. Capital ships needed as much internal volume as possible, leading to more circular cross sections.
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Shields at 50%, taunting at 100%! - Tom Pope |
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Re: Why are wallers stumpy and destroyers svelte? | |
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by Jonathan_S » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:02 am | |
Jonathan_S
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I tend to suspect you're right. Plus, if you tried to go full height with a smaller diameter you're going to have some very abbreviated topmost and bottommost decks - with some very sloping outer sides. It's probably more practical to figuratively slice those narrow (and possibly short) decks off to give yourself a wide enough ventral side to fit in your boat bays, and a wide enough dorsal side to fit all the senors and junk that goes up there. |
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Re: Why are wallers stumpy and destroyers svelte? | |
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by Annachie » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:07 am | |
Annachie
Posts: 3099
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Psychology.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ still not dead. |
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Re: Why are wallers stumpy and destroyers svelte? | |
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by jtg452 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:51 pm | |
jtg452
Posts: 471
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That's what I was thinking. We all know that the HH series was inspired and based on the Hornblower series. Age of Sail ships were laid out much the same way. Small warships (up to their 'frigates' which would be analogous to HH cruisers) had 1 gun deck. The big 'Line of Battle' ships had multiple (mostly 2 [50 to 74 gun] but the larger ones had 3 and there were even a couple built with 4 [100+ guns]) gun decks. |
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Re: Why are wallers stumpy and destroyers svelte? | |
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by SharkHunter » Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:05 pm | |
SharkHunter
Posts: 1608
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Read the description in Flag in Exile where Honor is getting her first look at the captured SD's in the process of being upgraded to Manticoran Tech. It explains it pretty well. Older SD's had multiple capital missile decks, both sides, where the Haven SD's had their tubes more concentrated, and Honor finally understood some of the "Peep" missile doctrine. ---------------------
All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all |
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Re: Why are wallers stumpy and destroyers svelte? | |
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by Draken » Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:02 pm | |
Draken
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Also capital ships need as much mass as its possible, cus they're need to be tough customers for enemy and wider hull mean more shots need to damage critical systems and to kill ship. Smaller are far more delicate and they're main defense is speed so there's no reason for crazy amounts of armor.
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Re: Why are wallers stumpy and destroyers svelte? | |
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by Jonathan_S » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:23 pm | |
Jonathan_S
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True enough. But that alone doesn't necessarily explain why the smaller ships have a different hull shape, rather than just a smaller diameter of the same basic hull length-to-beam (to-depth) ratio. |
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Re: Why are wallers stumpy and destroyers svelte? | |
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by JeffEngel » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:38 pm | |
JeffEngel
Posts: 2074
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Right. And the armor helps explain the smaller difference in length:beam ratios, while offering no help for the larger difference in length:draught ratios. A greater or smaller number of decks (assuming you keep the internal orientation fixed - the use of the inside by humans may disincline architects to get too creative there) would account for more or less total draught. But as far as that goes, it's just re-describing the question rather than answering it. Perhaps as you get a longer ship, you want more internal volume but you can't practically make it longer still, so you increase draught instead. (And assuming there that there's also a practical limitation on beam increases that's already being pushed.) Just what those practical limits are, I don't know. |
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