Post SL breakup politics

Theemile wrote:
Besides, the Andermani have proved to be a nation you can rely on when they give you their word and honest purveyors of political stability. It is in their interest to police their regions of space and to supress piracy, while allowing honest merchants to pass unmolested. To quell them is to allow another entity to form in their place - one you do not have the same relationship with.

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The Andermani, like Erehwon, like a stable neighborhood; they, however are NOT hesitant to having their armored gauntlet showing through the velvet outer-glove....

-- Stewart

stewart wrote:

Theemile wrote:Besides, the Andermani have proved to be a nation you can rely on when they give you their word and honest purveyors of political stability. It is in their interest to police their regions of space and to supress piracy, while allowing honest merchants to pass unmolested. To quell them is to allow another entity to form in their place - one you do not have the same relationship with.

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The Andermani, like Erehwon, like a stable neighborhood; they, however are NOT hesitant to having their armored gauntlet showing through the velvet outer-glove....

-- Stewart

I don't think Honor or by extension Elizabeth will mind if the Andermani Empire expands on the map in their particular area towards the SL. In fact, the SEM would probably have their diplomats working the streets in those systems, saying effectively "Yes, we know that the Andermani are empire builders, but they're known for taking better care of their people than your old overlords, and it doesn't put you between us and the SLN."

The arrival of the IAN is a pretty good deal for verge and outlying systems because no-one messes with the IAN; even Manticore didn't want to because they'd been effective if uneasy neighbors for generations.

For the moment, the tension between the Anderman Empire and the SEM is resolved with the resolution of the problem in Silesia.

Don

The question is, does Gustav want to do any more expanding at the moment? I believe it's been concluded that the normal rate of expansion of the Andermani Empire was roughly one new system per T-decade. When Silesia was partitioned, they acquired about 30 new systems in one stroke, which equates to around 300 T-years of normal expansion. There's already an enormous amount of work to do in Silesia, weeding out corruption and putting affairs in order, before those systems will be a net benefit to the Empire, so I suspect Gustav may be reluctant to add to the burden with ex-OFS systems.

Dafmeister wrote:The question is, does Gustav want to do any more expanding at the moment? I believe it's been concluded that the normal rate of expansion of the Andermani Empire was roughly one new system per T-decade. When Silesia was partitioned, they acquired about 30 new systems in one stroke, which equates to around 300 T-years of normal expansion. There's already an enormous amount of work to do in Silesia, weeding out corruption and putting affairs in order, before those systems will be a net benefit to the Empire, so I suspect Gustav may be reluctant to add to the burden with ex-OFS systems.

That's true to a point. They -did- acquire their Silesia systems in a pretty fast hurry though because they struck when the iron was right. If they don't make some sort of move towards the Verge and former SL systems, they could very well lose their chance to double or triple their size and lose those systems to the SEM. I can see the AE going for protectorates and such, as a long term way of getting their foot in the door for possible acquisition eventually.

Zakharra wrote:

Dafmeister wrote:The question is, does Gustav want to do any more expanding at the moment? I believe it's been concluded that the normal rate of expansion of the Andermani Empire was roughly one new system per T-decade. When Silesia was partitioned, they acquired about 30 new systems in one stroke, which equates to around 300 T-years of normal expansion. There's already an enormous amount of work to do in Silesia, weeding out corruption and putting affairs in order, before those systems will be a net benefit to the Empire, so I suspect Gustav may be reluctant to add to the burden with ex-OFS systems.

That's true to a point. They -did- acquire their Silesia systems in a pretty fast hurry though because they struck when the iron was right. If they don't make some sort of move towards the Verge and former SL systems, they could very well lose their chance to double or triple their size and lose those systems to the SEM. I can see the AE going for protectorates and such, as a long term way of getting their foot in the door for possible acquisition eventually.

Right. They're not going to be feeling internal imperial pressure, at all - but they've got a once-in-a-millennium opportunity here and quite possibly assorted neighbors who need straightening out as a security issue. Outright annexation isn't their only option, by any means. Even heavy-handed diplomacy isn't the only class of options.

What I think most of us are ruling out is only the "leaving all their regional relationships no more intimate" end of the foreign relations spectrum. At a basic level, they've got a fine and effective military that they are not afraid to use that can help create and maintain a generous sphere of influence in troubled times, whether as a system's protection against piracy, as something that stomps on local warlords and seizes the system, or as a defensive assurance to systems that are quite content to submit to Andermani hegemony in exchange for not being wrecked by whoever else, having to worry about it, or having to foot their own defensive bill.

--snipping--

JeffEngel wrote:Right. They're not going to be feeling internal imperial pressure, at all - but they've got a once-in-a-millennium opportunity here and quite possibly assorted neighbors who need straightening out as a security issue. Outright annexation isn't their only option, by any means. Even heavy-handed diplomacy isn't the only class of options.

What I think most of us are ruling out is only the "leaving all their regional relationships no more intimate" end of the foreign relations spectrum. At a basic level, they've got a fine and effective military that they are not afraid to use that can help create and maintain a generous sphere of influence in troubled times, whether as a system's protection against piracy, as something that stomps on local warlords and seizes the system, or as a defensive assurance to systems that are quite content to submit to Andermani hegemony in exchange for not being wrecked by whoever else, having to worry about it, or having to foot their own defensive bill.

Agreement in general. Plus all the Andermani really have to do is make the offer, and if it's accepted in a system that doesn't already have an FF squadron emplaced, etc. it wouldn't take much more than an Andermani heavy cruiser to warn any encroaching SL ships away. No, they might not be able to take those ships solo, but I think in most cases the SL skippers would at least have to "phone home for orders", and by the time an SLN task force could get back "with orders" stellar cartography means there'd likely be plenty of time for a dispatch boat to summon enough IAN units there first to say "apparently we didn't make ourselves clear the first time...now, bugger off!"

SharkHunter wrote:The arrival of the IAN is a pretty good deal for verge and outlying systems because no-one messes with the IAN; even Manticore didn't want to because they'd been effective if uneasy neighbors for generations.

Well Sharkhunter it is good to know you do not think like a power hungry dictator.

On the other hand...



How naive is your statement?

If what you say is true, why is El Salvador, Guatamala, Honduras, Nicaragua not a nation with Mexico... Why have the nations around South Africa not joined? Why is Pakistan/Bangledesh/India/Burma not a nation? Why has North Korea not amalgamated itself with S. Korea? Why has it not amalgamated itself with China? North Korean's are literally starving to death. About a million have done so in the last 20 years. That is why they always start shouting WAR! WAR! WAR! and sometimes shooting at S. Korean ships/people every time their rice bowls near the "E" mark. We oblige them by sending them rice and wheat. They are near if not the lowest of pigsty's on earth.

Why are their so many civil wars?

Why are their so many "freedom" movements?

Some due to injustices. Mostly just power hungry people who either want power by any means necessary, or who will keep power by any means necessary. It matters not if their pigsty is the foulest on the rung. It is THEIR pigsty and THEY are King.

A nation is not a panacea group. It is a group held together by culture: Language, race, history, tradition, religion, etc. Only the USA, Canada, Britain drops the race, religion card by and large compared to any other nations on earth. In Honorverse, DW has stated most planets dropped the race/religion card along the way when running away from earth. Certainly not all.

King of the pigsty is still King of the pigsty 2000 years from now and Kings like sitting on their pigsty thrones.

wastedfly wrote:King of the pigsty is still King of the pigsty 2000 years from now and Kings like sitting on their pigsty thrones.

As RFC put it in Shadow of Saganami, some just care about being the biggest fish, no matter how small the pond, while the smarter understand that becoming a mid size fish in a much bigger pond is a good thing.

Ok, here is another one.

Why has the USA not taken over Mexico? After all, Mexico is a pigsty by and large with over 250,000 dead in the last few years in their drug wars. Keep on going right? Go all the way to Panama. By and large those countries are corrupt poor pigstys that either still in civil war or who just recently stopped.

1) USA would have to admit that all the drugs trafficked through Mexico creating the problems in the first place are due to the USA populations avarice indulgence.

2) Mexico's "kings" would then band together and protect their pigsty. Kingpiggy's do not like being dethroned. The Mexican people like their cultural traditions and King Piggy's would drum up support via the "oppresser" card be it religion, etc.

3) Language cultural problems. Force everyone to learn English? That will take a generation or two. Sorry, no nation is truly a nation that speaks more than one major language. Why do you think China has had so many North South Civil wars? Language is always one of the major hurdles. Communication. Herd think, or lack of think as the case may be.

4) Massive financial burden bringing Mexico up to USA's standards for integration.

Countries taking over other countries do not do so out of the kindness of their hearts. It is usually due to some King piggy who is already a king piggy or who wants to become a king piggy wanting another hunting chalet who will drum up support with the naive public anyway they can. See the Spanish American so called "war" and king piggy's wanting Puerto Ricoan Sugar and the resulting cause for the American-Phillipino war where USA was about to hand the Phillipines back to their own king piggy's just as we had said we were going to do with Cuba, but because of a COMMUNICATION error, caused around 500,000 1,000,000 deaths.

King of Pigsty rules supreme throughout human history.
Humans do not change. Just slightly different disguises over the same proclivities.