Firebrand's agenda...

You try that you'll just have another person who will never be able to tell you anything ever again. Remember the guy on Torch? What happened to him?

SharkHunter wrote:

JohnRoth wrote:The way things are compartmentalized, I seriously doubt that Aldona knows all that much beyond the various operations she's been assigned. Granted, that's likely to be a great deal in terms of people, places, who's been paid off, where she orders supplies and all that stuff, but it's not going to get anyone a centimeter closer to the Renaissance Factor, Felix or Darius. She is, of course, one of the people who's dealt with Albrecht face to face, and she has one of the specialty line bodyguards as well.

Her ship, with the Streak Drive hyper generator, is likely to be a lot more interesting. If it can be taken intact.

Agreement on the ships. What she knows? In Mission of Honor, it refers to Albrecht bringing her all the way inside the onion, and how dismayed she was that she thought she knew what was going on, and didn't know much at all about the big picture. Big hit to her ego. See Chapter 22 in Shadow of Sagnami for the description of her reaction to finding out.

The fact that Albrecht told her he was bringing all the way into the onion, doesn't mean that she was brought all the way into the onion, just that she was told a lot more than she had already known. I would be very surprised if she had been gifted with the knowledge of where Darius was, or even the names of the members of the RF, or, in fact, even the existence of the RF. Those are all need to know items, and she doesn't.

JohnRoth wrote:The way things are compartmentalized, I seriously doubt that Aldona knows all that much beyond the various operations she's been assigned. Granted, that's likely to be a great deal in terms of people, places, who's been paid off, where she orders supplies and all that stuff, but it's not going to get anyone a centimeter closer to the Renaissance Factor, Felix or Darius. She is, of course, one of the people who's dealt with Albrecht face to face, and she has one of the specialty line bodyguards as well.

Her ship, with the Streak Drive hyper generator, is likely to be a lot more interesting. If it can be taken intact.

Yes, although the streak drive is one of the things that the GA may be on a better footing figuring out than a lot of other things, since Herlander Simoes' work has been closely related to it. (More the theoretical end than the nuts-and-bolts, so an example of it would be a fine complement, but still.)

If Anisimovna were interested in being genuinely helpful as a participant rather than simply terrified - or making mouth-noises just to put off being ripped up - she's a capable operator and likely a reasonable analyst, and could help put together a lot, like the likelihood of something like the RF and Darius. (Then again, I don't think that's beyond Zilwicki, Harrington-Alexander or Givens at this point, either.) And clearly non-coerced testimony from her about activities in Talbott and Meyers could make a big impact on the slightly-or-more open minds in the League. (The count on them is not quite zero.)

I am not actually at all confident that she would be taken alive, or be helpful even under threat of torture, or not lie her butt off if tortured/terrified. (It's SOP, after all, for anyone, ever, contra torture fandom.)

JeffEngel wrote:

JohnRoth wrote:The way things are compartmentalized, I seriously doubt that Aldona knows all that much beyond the various operations she's been assigned. Granted, that's likely to be a great deal in terms of people, places, who's been paid off, where she orders supplies and all that stuff, but it's not going to get anyone a centimeter closer to the Renaissance Factor, Felix or Darius. She is, of course, one of the people who's dealt with Albrecht face to face, and she has one of the specialty line bodyguards as well.

Her ship, with the Streak Drive hyper generator, is likely to be a lot more interesting. If it can be taken intact.

Yes, although the streak drive is one of the things that the GA may be on a better footing figuring out than a lot of other things, since Herlander Simoes' work has been closely related to it. (More the theoretical end than the nuts-and-bolts, so an example of it would be a fine complement, but still.)

If Anisimovna were interested in being genuinely helpful as a participant rather than simply terrified - or making mouth-noises just to put off being ripped up - she's a capable operator and likely a reasonable analyst, and could help put together a lot, like the likelihood of something like the RF and Darius. (Then again, I don't think that's beyond Zilwicki, Harrington-Alexander or Givens at this point, either.) And clearly non-coerced testimony from her about activities in Talbott and Meyers could make a big impact on the slightly-or-more open minds in the League. (The count on them is not quite zero.)

I am not actually at all confident that she would be taken alive, or be helpful even under threat of torture, or not lie her butt off if tortured/terrified. (It's SOP, after all, for anyone, ever, contra torture fandom.)

Agreement on all points except one, and a brief response to a prior thought -- that she'd have a capsule to turn her mind to mush with any enthusiastic torturing. As an independent operator, she has to be able to think about anything, and because they [any GA captors] will be paranoid about the mind mush, they're initially not going to torture her or my favored silliness of trying to intimidate her with tree-cat claws.

But ANY treecat within a certain distance of her is going to be able to tell when she's lying her a$$ off, and even that is useful information that can lead in very productive directions. Contradicting Hongbo, for example, tracking down Ottweiler if he is still loose, confirming the existence of the Houdini plan, where to turn Ruth loose with her toys to hack into the streak drives systems without turning them to slag, all sorts of good stuff.

SharkHunter wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:I am not actually at all confident that she would be taken alive, or be helpful even under threat of torture, or not lie her butt off if tortured/terrified. (It's SOP, after all, for anyone, ever, contra torture fandom.)

Agreement on all points except one, and a brief response to a prior thought -- that she'd have a capsule to turn her mind to mush with any enthusiastic torturing. As an independent operator, she has to be able to think about anything, and because they [any GA captors] will be paranoid about the mind mush, they're initially not going to torture her or my favored silliness of trying to intimidate her with tree-cat claws. But ANY treecat within a certain distance of her is going to be able to tell when she's lying her a$$ off, and even that is useful information that can lead in very productive directions. Contradicting Hongbo, for example, tracking down Ottweiler if he is still loose, confirming the existence of the Houdini plan, where to turn Ruth loose with her toys to hack into the streak drives systems without turning them to slag, all sorts of good stuff.

Yeah. But even with a treecat, she could do pretty well using technically truthful statements to mislead. And if she figures she's being effectively interrogated anyway, or that she's never getting out, suicide may look good.

I'm not sure about how she'd react, honestly. I think she's thrilled by the Alignment's ambition and audacity, but she's got a sliver of a scruple that is bothered by it. (Not much. Not enough to get in the way, not enough to earn her human being credit. Just not strictly nothing.) If she were captured and had no realistic hope of release, I think she may defect just to get better terms and stay in the game somewhat. But genuine, strong loyalty to the Alignment is a serious possibility too.

JeffEngel wrote:I am not actually at all confident that she would be taken alive, or be helpful even under threat of torture, or not lie her butt off if tortured/terrified. (It's SOP, after all, for anyone, ever, contra torture fandom.)

SharkHunter wrote:Agreement on all points except one, and a brief response to a prior thought -- that she'd have a capsule to turn her mind to mush with any enthusiastic torturing. As an independent operator, she has to be able to think about anything, and because they [any GA captors] will be paranoid about the mind mush, they're initially not going to torture her or my favored silliness of trying to intimidate her with tree-cat claws. But ANY treecat within a certain distance of her is going to be able to tell when she's lying her a$$ off, and even that is useful information that can lead in very productive directions. Contradicting Hongbo, for example, tracking down Ottweiler if he is still loose, confirming the existence of the Houdini plan, where to turn Ruth loose with her toys to hack into the streak drives systems without turning them to slag, all sorts of good stuff.

JeffEngel wrote:Yeah. But even with a treecat, she could do pretty well using technically truthful statements to mislead. And if she figures she's being effectively interrogated anyway, or that she's never getting out, suicide may look good.

I'm not sure about how she'd react, honestly. I think she's thrilled by the Alignment's ambition and audacity, but she's got a sliver of a scruple that is bothered by it. (Not much. Not enough to get in the way, not enough to earn her human being credit. Just not strictly nothing.) If she were captured and had no realistic hope of release, I think she may defect just to get better terms and stay in the game somewhat. But genuine, strong loyalty to the Alignment is a serious possibility too.

This is assuming that she is aware that a treecat is monitoring her responses. Keep the cat in the next room, so that she is unaware of it, and let her think she is getting away with lying about it. I would doubt that she has a capsule that could be removed. If I were the MAlign with agents out there that might give away more information than I want, I would have given them a nanotech virus, with a trigger phrase, and told her that the trigger phrase will protect her against interrogation by locking her voice against speaking. After a short while it kills her. If she is willing to use the capsule, she will be willing to use the trigger phrase, and being told it just locks here voice my well get her to use it even if she doesn't want to commit suicide.

And of course, to compound all the endless speculation about who knows what and whether the treecats will notice their odd mind odor--

What about Commander Milliken, the supposedly Mesan Navy consultant with the PNE? You know, the one that survived long enough to see the PNE surrender.

I always assumed suicide, for that one. But what if she didn't?


Rob

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:And of course, to compound all the endless speculation about who knows what and whether the treecats will notice their odd mind odor--

What about Commander Milliken, the supposedly Mesan Navy consultant with the PNE? You know, the one that survived long enough to see the PNE surrender.

I always assumed suicide, for that one. But what if she didn't?


Rob

Nice. TOTALLY forgot about her, but I'm assuming she's Mesan Navy and knows nothing about the MAlign. If she's still alive, it would be interesting to know what she knows, I agree.

SharkHunter wrote:Nice. TOTALLY forgot about her, but I'm assuming she's Mesan Navy and knows nothing about the MAlign. If she's still alive, it would be interesting to know what she knows, I agree.

No, it was explicitly stated she was MAN. But it doesn't matter. She simply chooses to not talk. You are going to do what with the only treecat on Torch?

kzt wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:Nice. TOTALLY forgot about her, but I'm assuming she's Mesan Navy and knows nothing about the MAlign. If she's still alive, it would be interesting to know what she knows, I agree.

No, it was explicitly stated she was MAN. But it doesn't matter. She simply chooses to not talk. You are going to do what with the only treecat on Torch?

I expect she took something to induct her into her next state of existence, prior to allowing the likes of Jeremy X the option of not allowing her the fifth amendment. But the text just didn't mention her when it discussed Saburo's interrogations.

Rob

Rob