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Point of View: Wishes and Likes

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Re: Point of View: Wishes and Likes
Post by JeffEngel   » Thu May 14, 2015 3:00 pm

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roseandheather wrote:That actually brings up something I've been wondering about: would station commanders like Khumalo or Sarnow, who may be parked out in their respective areas of responsibility for years at a time, be allowed to bring their families/spouses with them? For instance, if Khumalo got married, could his spouse live on Flax? Or could Sarnow's husband (whoever he turns out to be, but please let us meet him, RFC!!) relocate to wherever Sarnow's HQ is in Silesia? Would the spouse have to be stationed (be it by the Navy, the Foreign Office, etc.) out there as well? It's something that wouldn't have arisen in the OSK, but in the SEM where areas of the Empire are so far-flung, it's an interesting (and pressing) question. I wonder if Haven might have any insight, given that they have much more experience with a multi-star-system polity than Manticore.

(this has nothing to do with Augustus and Estelle carry on carry on)

The RMN has had long-term deployments in Silesia at least for some time, along with shore-side or station-based deployments as (e.g.) naval attaches on Old Earth or yard work at Grendelsbane. I would suppose that family members without compelling reason to be back on Manticore or elsewhere may get quarters out there or live in civilian housing in the area often enough. The current Silesia (and Talbott) deployment is probably both longer-term and more based in given systems, which is going to help keep families together out yonder.

On the other hand, with two-career families, prolong, and the way naval commands tend to move around more than stay in place, I'm sure a lot of husbands and wives choose to remain wherever home outside the Navy is, like Sinead Terekhov.
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Re: Point of View: Wishes and Likes
Post by Relax   » Thu May 14, 2015 3:09 pm

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cthia wrote:Yes, I missed that about Sarnow! Uh oh, I hope DW doesn't lose readers for being realistic and accurate.


Why would he lose readers? Unless of course, you never bothered to read what I wrote... Besides, he brought the issue up back in HotQ. Made a whole planet with a 3:1 F:M ratio and everything that implies.

Vast difference between acknowledging reality and our fallen nature, and glorifying it.
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Re: Point of View: Wishes and Likes
Post by cthia   » Thu May 14, 2015 4:19 pm

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JeffEngel wrote:
roseandheather wrote:That actually brings up something I've been wondering about: would station commanders like Khumalo or Sarnow, who may be parked out in their respective areas of responsibility for years at a time, be allowed to bring their families/spouses with them? For instance, if Khumalo got married, could his spouse live on Flax? Or could Sarnow's husband (whoever he turns out to be, but please let us meet him, RFC!!) relocate to wherever Sarnow's HQ is in Silesia? Would the spouse have to be stationed (be it by the Navy, the Foreign Office, etc.) out there as well? It's something that wouldn't have arisen in the OSK, but in the SEM where areas of the Empire are so far-flung, it's an interesting (and pressing) question. I wonder if Haven might have any insight, given that they have much more experience with a multi-star-system polity than Manticore.

(this has nothing to do with Augustus and Estelle carry on carry on)

The RMN has had long-term deployments in Silesia at least for some time, along with shore-side or station-based deployments as (e.g.) naval attaches on Old Earth or yard work at Grendelsbane. I would suppose that family members without compelling reason to be back on Manticore or elsewhere may get quarters out there or live in civilian housing in the area often enough. The current Silesia (and Talbott) deployment is probably both longer-term and more based in given systems, which is going to help keep families together out yonder.

On the other hand, with two-career families, prolong, and the way naval commands tend to move around more than stay in place, I'm sure a lot of husbands and wives choose to remain wherever home outside the Navy is, like Sinead Terekhov.

Rose, I've had this same question on my mind for some time. I asked it once somewhere.

What made me think about it is when I consider what happened to Helen senior. What exactly were Anton Zilwicki and 4-yr-old Helen doing tagging along with that convoy? Were they headed to visit Helen? That was a convoy of three merchantmen and two freighter-transports which carried over six thousand civilian and Navy technicians along with their families, including her husband and daughter. They were all headed to Grendelsbane, which was an RMN base in an uninhabited system. Anton nor baby Helen were technicians, so why were they along? Lest it was to visit Helen who may have been stationed there at Grendelsbane. I was intending to reread that for that information. At any rate, it seems that families are indeed allowed to at least visit, lest the families of that convoy were going to stay.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Point of View: Wishes and Likes
Post by Jonathan_S   » Thu May 14, 2015 6:50 pm

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roseandheather wrote:That actually brings up something I've been wondering about: would station commanders like Khumalo or Sarnow, who may be parked out in their respective areas of responsibility for years at a time, be allowed to bring their families/spouses with them? For instance, if Khumalo got married, could his spouse live on Flax? Or could Sarnow's husband (whoever he turns out to be, but please let us meet him, RFC!!) relocate to wherever Sarnow's HQ is in Silesia? Would the spouse have to be stationed (be it by the Navy, the Foreign Office, etc.) out there as well? It's something that wouldn't have arisen in the OSK, but in the SEM where areas of the Empire are so far-flung, it's an interesting (and pressing) question. I wonder if Haven might have any insight, given that they have much more experience with a multi-star-system polity than Manticore.
The one place it might have come up under the old Star Kingdom would be the Gregor-B terminus picket (since unlike the Basilisk Station one I believe it was a real permanent station with formal organizational existence).

So on the one hand ships might be assigned there for years. On the other hand there's not really habitable planets around, and it's less than a day's transit time from Manticore. So maybe families would stay in the home system and ships get cycled back for shore leave reasonably frequently.


I also looked at Hancock station; but based on the description of the evacuees I don't think there were any families there; just the military and the actual workers associated with the repair yard. OTOH that was a forward station, in an uninhabited system, set up under the looming threat of war. So it probably doesn't tell us much about what the rules would be in an inhabited member system (or protectorate system) under less militarily uncertain conditions.

[Edit: Oops, there was another page of posts already :oops: I see JeffEngel and cthia brought up good points and info about Grendelsbane; and example I hadn't thought of]


But I'd hope that now a long term fleet station posting would include the option for family to accompany; assume there are reasonably safe civilian-ish accommodations available. (Certainly when I hoped for the Sarnow short story I was assuming his husband would be out in Silesia with him)
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Re: Point of View: Wishes and Likes
Post by Weird Harold   » Thu May 14, 2015 7:03 pm

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cthia wrote:Anton nor baby Helen were technicians, so why were they along?


IIRC, Anton mentions that his career included a stint as a Yard Dog before he was a spy.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Point of View: Wishes and Likes
Post by lyonheart   » Thu May 14, 2015 10:15 pm

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Hi Cythia,

First, please don't bring politics here to the forums.

It's one of the reasons I like the forums

We will have to disagree on Hilary's qualifications for office, since the only thing she's done well is protect Bill so he can prey on other women, but it's okay because he's a democrat, and of course a feminist.

A "damn fine job" might be only in comparison with the current administration, who somehow manage to have low official unemployment numbers [by playing with the numbers] while 93+ million adult Americans aren't working and 20% of America's families have NO ONE working in them is apparently okay if you're a democrat, NTM a foreign policy that treats America's allies like enemies and its enemies like allies.

Remember the "RESET" fiasco?

"Putin isn't a threat, he is our friend" until last year according to the Obama chorus of the lame-stream press.

Given no supporter can name one thing Hilary made better as our nominal secretary of state for four years [granted this administration made it very difficult to do anything right], except enrich the Clinton Foundation- [15% outlays is not a charity, its criminal!] she has very little to brag about aside from dodging nonexistent sniper fire in Sarajevo, Bosnia; or being named after Sir Hillary of Mt Everest fame four years before he climbed it, while paying her female staff 72% of what she pays her male staffers, but rails against republicans who do follow federal law and pay both the same, but why go on?

The idea of nominally rational people thinking she's competent says more about the American left if not the Democrat party than I want to believe is possible, but I keep being proved wrong unfortunately.

L


cthia wrote:CAUTION
YIELD
STOP

Or whichever traffic sign you pay more attention to. I am not intending to strike up a conversation about politics, but to give a little history leading up to this post.

It is time to consider our Presidential candidates. I'm simply thrilled that Hilary will run. I'm tickled pink at the opportunity to vote for a woman. It's icing on the cake that I also think she'll do a damn fine job.

One of the main issues that seem to threaten many candidates is the topic of gay marriage. On the one hand you have constituents who are Christians and see gay marriages as a threat to religious beliefs and the institution of marriage. On the other, you have those constituents who are concerned with separation of church and state and the issue of government insinuating itself into our personal affairs and bedrooms. It's a sticky subject better than any soap opera.

It is sad that America still has problems with turn of the century issues. And government, corporations, and individuals are frightened to tackle these taboo subjects. Interracial relationships are still a taboo subject on many tv programs, commercials, endorsements, etc. etc. etc. How can we discuss gay rights when we can't even tackle interracial issues?

But those entities that are willing to tackle those issues head on and stand by them come out as winners and leaders. There was a rather controversial Cheerios commercial, starring an interracial family. I cannot believe that that commercial and Cheerios representatives took so much negative flak. Cheerios was bombarded with requests to pull the commercial off the air. Cheerios basically told that segment of people to suck it! Bravo Cheerios.

America is so damn confused. At any rate, I praise writers, producers and authors who aren't afraid to tackle certain issues. I immediately praised Weber for not only placing black people in the Honorverse, but the Queen of Manticore is black! I didn't see that one coming.

So, I arrive at the exit marker of my post. Is it time for Weber to take on gay marriage? Will he lead the way? I can certainly understand why many corporations, writers, producers and leaders steer clear of such issues. Things can go into the crapper very quickly.

If Weber was to tackle the issue of gay marriage, it should be with a very visible character. Unsuspected. Abigail would do that quite well. And she would be believable, as far as her Grayson upbringing and women living so closely together. Abigail and Stacy Hauptman somehow meeting and falling in love would sell lots of tickets. It'd be a sell out. I'd buy them all. And it'd be a sure-fire way for Weber to snag another segment of readers.

She could even end up joining Honor, Emily and White Haven. At any rate, what do you think of Weber tackling this on-the-front-burner issue?

It'd be an awesome POV.


General Mill's original Cheerios commercial and its follow up Super Bowl counterpart.

https://youtu.be/pbWeH9cztHw

https://youtu.be/5qkJHgkUzDA
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Point of View: Wishes and Likes
Post by lyonheart   » Thu May 14, 2015 10:45 pm

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Hi Jonathan_S,

He also mentioned it at a few 'cons, including HonorCon #1 that I attended.

To be frank, I like Sarnow, and saw no sign of any gay teasers or tip-offs when we saw him in the early books, just being gallant to Honor when he wasn't defending her behind her back; the only recent reference being his being in command of Silesia so it had been almost 20 years since we've seen him speak.

I didn't mention it online after returning home because I didn't feel it was my business, though it did come up last year, -nor was I going to try to talk RFC out of doing it-he made it quite stridently- though Hutch and I discussed the revelation which was made at the end of one of the last meetings when few appeared to be within the room to hear [Sunday morning IIRC].

We have no clue yet if Manticore approves of even civil unions since its so much more provincial than Beowulf [though I suspect it does] and Sphinx is far more provincial than Manticore which has licensed prostitutes.

If Beowulf didn't scandalize the SKM by its sexual liberality as so often hinted, if not spelled out, there is little left we know of for them to be scandalized over.

The real problem is our current culture has moved much further and farther towards such chaos than rational people thought possible more than 20 years ago when the honorverse began, including RFC of course.

L


Jonathan_S wrote:
cthia wrote:*quote="SWM"*
But on the non-political side, I think you may have missed the fact that Admiral Sarnow has a male partner.*quote*
I know. It is why I said I wasn't trying to start a political discussion but just supplying some history leading to - and hopefully explaining the post.

Yes, I missed that about Sarnow! Uh oh, I hope DW doesn't lose readers for being realistic and accurate.
I was going to mention Sarnow; if SWM hadn't beaten me to it.

But cthia, don't feel bad that you missed it. RFC mentioned it here on the board, and it's in his private honorverse "bible", but hasn't shown up "on screen" in the books. Sarnow just hasn't gotten much "screen time" and very few characters have had their spouse (if any) mentioned -- so his husband is just one of many unmentioned spouses. (Even the character mini-bios in HoS focus on career and are almost universally silent on family; and the marriages that are mentioned are mostly major ones that had novel "screen time" already)

My understanding is that that kind of detail will come up, for Sarnow or anyone else, only when RFC feels it's pertinent to the scene. (Hopefully we'll get a short story that covers, say, Sarnow's struggles managing Silesia and it'll will include a bit with his husband)
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Point of View: Wishes and Likes
Post by Hutch   » Fri May 15, 2015 7:51 am

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lyonheart wrote:Hi Cythia,

First, please don't bring politics here to the forums.

It's one of the reasons I like the forums


Same here, but then you go and write a whole post of politics (yours), probably because you didn't read where cthia had pulled back and stopped the discussion...in other words, my friend, you posted before you read the rest of the thread and then did what you said we shouldn't do... :o

That's three lashes with a wet noodle, lyonheart... 8-) :lol:
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Re: Point of View: Wishes and Likes
Post by SWM   » Fri May 15, 2015 9:36 am

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cthia wrote:Rose, I've had this same question on my mind for some time. I asked it once somewhere.

What made me think about it is when I consider what happened to Helen senior. What exactly were Anton Zilwicki and 4-yr-old Helen doing tagging along with that convoy? Were they headed to visit Helen? That was a convoy of three merchantmen and two freighter-transports which carried over six thousand civilian and Navy technicians along with their families, including her husband and daughter. They were all headed to Grendelsbane, which was an RMN base in an uninhabited system. Anton nor baby Helen were technicians, so why were they along? Lest it was to visit Helen who may have been stationed there at Grendelsbane. I was intending to reread that for that information. At any rate, it seems that families are indeed allowed to at least visit, lest the families of that convoy were going to stay.

Actually, it was Anton who was being sent to Grendelsbane. He was a navy technician. Helen was acting as commander of the escort, not as one of the technicians being sent. I don't think the story specifically says so, but I assume that she was assigned the escort duty because she had requested reassignment to Grendelsbane, in order to stay with her husband and daughter.
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Re: Point of View: Wishes and Likes
Post by cthia   » Fri May 15, 2015 12:04 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:Anton nor baby Helen were technicians, so why were they along?


IIRC, Anton mentions that his career included a stint as a Yard Dog before he was a spy.

Of which your revelation Harold, SWM, (to which I was not privy), explains one of my other past concerns, of where Anton had acquired the skills to keep that broken ship going, when he, Victor and company were almost marooned.

Forgive me, I forget the name of the ship or the company of the young lady that was along with.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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