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The Alignment and Maya.

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The Alignment and Maya.
Post by senna   » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:27 pm

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I am in the process of rereading MOH and have just reached the end of CH 39 where the RF heads of state are meeting. It has occured to me. How much of Barregos intentions are pure? or Is he part of the Alignment as well? I might well be seeing something that isn't there but the thought remains.

The last thing they could afford at this critical juncture was for the rest of the galaxy to decide that the corrupt, outlaw corporations of Mesa were secretly pulling the strings behind these men and women. The very thing that made them so critical to the Alignment's ultimate success was the fact that there had never been a single trace of a connection between one of them and Mesa. All of them came from families which had been part of their native societies for so long their bona fides were beyond question. All had well-earned reputations as capable, farsighted, deeply involved heads of state. Each had expressed his or her own condemnation of genetic slavery, and most had been actively involved in stamping it out in their own societies. And unlike the vast majority of Solarian League politicians, there had never been even a hint of corruption or venality attached to any of them. Which meant they were absolutely essential. When the Manties hammered the SLN into wreckage yet again—when the carefully primed "spontaneous rebellions" broke out in a dozen places simultaneously in the Verge as the League Navy's reputation crumbled, and when the score of Frontier Security governors who'd been carefully prepared by their own versions of Aldona Anisimovna followed the example of the Maya Sector and unilaterally assumed emergency powers in order to "protect" the citizens of their sectors—the men and women around this table with Albert Detweiler would emerge as the leaders of a new interstellar power.

David Weber. Mission of Honor-ARC (Kindle Locations 9471-9481). Baen Books.
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Re: The Alignment and Maya.
Post by roseandheather   » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:37 pm

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senna wrote:I am in the process of rereading MOH and have just reached the end of CH 39 where the RF heads of state are meeting. It got occured to me, How much of Barregos intentions are pure, or if he is part of the Alignment as well? I might well be seeing something that isn't there but the thought remains.

The last thing they could afford at this critical juncture was for the rest of the galaxy to decide that the corrupt, outlaw corporations of Mesa were secretly pulling the strings behind these men and women. The very thing that made them so critical to the Alignment's ultimate success was the fact that there had never been a single trace of a connection between one of them and Mesa. All of them came from families which had been part of their native societies for so long their bona fides were beyond question. All had well-earned reputations as capable, farsighted, deeply involved heads of state. Each had expressed his or her own condemnation of genetic slavery, and most had been actively involved in stamping it out in their own societies. And unlike the vast majority of Solarian League politicians, there had never been even a hint of corruption or venality attached to any of them. Which meant they were absolutely essential. When the Manties hammered the SLN into wreckage yet again—when the carefully primed "spontaneous rebellions" broke out in a dozen places simultaneously in the Verge as the League Navy's reputation crumbled, and when the score of Frontier Security governors who'd been carefully prepared by their own versions of Aldona Anisimovna followed the example of the Maya Sector and unilaterally assumed emergency powers in order to "protect" the citizens of their sectors—the men and women around this table with Albert Detweiler would emerge as the leaders of a new interstellar power.

David Weber. Mission of Honor-ARC (Kindle Locations 9471-9481). Baen Books.


As far as we have been informed, no, Barregos is not part of the Alignment. If he has a halo, it's very tarnished; he's quite ruthless and he has a tendency toward empire-building, but he's also established to care first and foremost about his sector and keeping his people intact and with a relatively decent standard of living as the worlds around the Verge and Shell start to break away from the League.

For one thing, Alignment personnel are always from one of Mesa's alpha lines or similar, and we have no hint that this is the case for Barregos.

I'm not saying he can't be, certainly, but given that he's so far been seen to be quite helpful to Manticore and company - though out of self-interest on his part and not altruism - I would suspect that he wasn't, and I really can't see any benefit for the MAlign in his actions so far or in his probable future course.

I should also point out, however, that my expertise in Honorverse politics is largely limited to Haven and Grayson, and Manticore to a slightly lesser extent; the inner workings of the Onion, the League, and Torch tend to go over my head because I've hyperfocused on my Republic and those it interacts with most for so long.

Just my two. :D
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Re: The Alignment and Maya.
Post by Weird Harold   » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:45 pm

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senna wrote:I am in the process of rereading MOH and have just reached the end of CH 39 where the RF heads of state are meeting. It has occured to me. How much of Barregos intentions are pure? or Is he part of the Alignment as well? I might well be seeing something that isn't there but the thought remains.


From a literary standpoint, the purpose of that meeting of the RF leaders is to introduce the bad guys. Barregos wasn't at that meeting, or mentioned as not being able to make it, ergo he's not "one of the bad guys."

As Rose noted, that doesn't mean he's a particularly nice person, but He's more good-guy than bad-guy.
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Re: The Alignment and Maya.
Post by senna   » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:01 pm

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As mentioned the meeting was of RF heads of state, Just because he is an OFS Sector Governor and NOT a Head of State Doesn't mean he is not a member of the MA!!
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Re: The Alignment and Maya.
Post by saber964   » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:03 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
senna wrote:I am in the process of rereading MOH and have just reached the end of CH 39 where the RF heads of state are meeting. It has occured to me. How much of Barregos intentions are pure? or Is he part of the Alignment as well? I might well be seeing something that isn't there but the thought remains.


From a literary standpoint, the purpose of that meeting of the RF leaders is to introduce the bad guys. Barregos wasn't at that meeting, or mentioned as not being able to make it, ergo he's not "one of the bad guys."

As Rose noted, that doesn't mean he's a particularly nice person, but He's more good-guy than bad-guy.



Barregos IMHO is a lot like Helen Zilwickis description of her father. "An angel with a really sooty halo"
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Re: The Alignment and Maya.
Post by JeffEngel   » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:28 pm

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senna wrote:I am in the process of rereading MOH and have just reached the end of CH 39 where the RF heads of state are meeting. It has occured to me. How much of Barregos intentions are pure? or Is he part of the Alignment as well? I might well be seeing something that isn't there but the thought remains.


There's the Mesan Alignment, and there are all those thousands of people who are doing the sorts of things the MA has been working centuries to arrange that someone in their position would do. They can't take the Solarian League apart themselves, they can't scuttle the Republic of Haven or Star Empire of Manticore themselves either - it's all up to manipulated third parties, and the Mesan hands on them are generally as indirect as can be.

They've set things up to make the League tear itself up, with Manticoran pressure. Barregos is just one figure who is perhaps a bit ahead of the curve that way ushering a chunk of the League out of it, perhaps a larger chunk than they'd like... and probably with a lot closer relationship to Torch and a better ability to wrap his mind around the possibility of the Alignment than they'd really care for, if they knew.
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Re: The Alignment and Maya.
Post by JohnRoth   » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:41 pm

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IIRC, Oravil Barregos is an Offish (uh, OFS)-appointed sector governor, and is from one of the core worlds, possibly Earth itself, with all the connections back on Earth that implies. He's not a local, which all of the MAlign's "sleeper lines" appear to be.

On the other hand, there's textev somewhere that Detwiller and company are depending on him to kick off the chain reaction of rebellion and secession among the Verge.
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Re: The Alignment and Maya.
Post by n7axw   » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:58 pm

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Let's all look at this paragraph from MOH. I suspect it is the one Senna is referring to.

Which meant they were absolutely essential. When the Manties hammered the SLN into wreckage yet again---when the carefully primed “spontaneous rebellions” broke out in a dozen places siumultaneously in the Verge as the League Navy’s reputation crumbled, and when the score of Frontier Security governors who had been carefully prepared by their own versions of Aldona Anisimovna followed the example of the Maya sector and unilaterally assumed emergency powers to “protect” the citizens of their sectors---the men and women around this table with Albert Detweiler would emerge as the leaders of a new interstellar power MOH p. 539, dead tree ed.

I don't think there is any evidence to implicate Barragos either, but it is possible, I suppose, to form a certain impression on the basis of the bold print.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: The Alignment and Maya.
Post by SWM   » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:52 pm

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Yeah, it's come up in the forums a couple times before. I don't think anyone has come up with any evidence to support the idea. It's not implausible, but what little evidence we have suggests otherwise. It's obvious that the Alignment knows about Barregos' plans, and they probably have some agents there. But the Alignment plan for spontaneous rebellions does not require the leaders of those rebellions to be Mesan agents. Some of them might be agents. Some of them might simply be under the influence of agents. And some of them might be people who recognize what is coming and are preparing for it--whether for their own gain or for more altruistic reasons. What little evidence we have suggests that Barregos is one of the latter. Mesan agents will be watching all the sectors they expect to be powder kegs, and Maya is high on the list.
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Re: The Alignment and Maya.
Post by Whitecold   » Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:27 am

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I think that any Mesan involvement in Maya is not at the top. Barregos and Roszak went really far to protect Torch. Both of them would have had no problem sabotaging the rescue mission without arousing any suspicion.
My suspicion is that most of the priming is done with the transstellar deals with governors, promising them support and suggesting the possibility of independence.
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