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Horrifying Thought About Prolong

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Horrifying Thought About Prolong
Post by SCC   » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:24 am

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OK, I was over on another board reading a thread about Full Metal Panic and someone made a comment about putting hormonal teenage girls in command of warships. Then I realized something, in Ms. Midshipwoman Harrington Honor, whilst legally 20 her prolong made her appear younger, and from some comments in others book I'm pretty sure she would have been physiologically pre-pubescent at this point.

Didn't her mother try to buy her a night with an escort as a present for graduating the academy?
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Re: Horrifying Thought About Prolong
Post by Daryl   » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:51 am

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This has been extensively discussed here previously. I'm too tired (late here) and lazy to research it tonight, but there has been much said on this before.

SCC wrote:OK, I was over on another board reading a thread about Full Metal Panic and someone made a comment about putting hormonal teenage girls in command of warships. Then I realized something, in Ms. Midshipwoman Harrington Honor, whilst legally 20 her prolong made her appear younger, and from some comments in others book I'm pretty sure she would have been physiologically pre-pubescent at this point.

Didn't her mother try to buy her a night with an escort as a present for graduating the academy?
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Re: Horrifying Thought About Prolong
Post by Randomiser   » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:23 pm

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SCC wrote:OK, I was over on another board reading a thread about Full Metal Panic and someone made a comment about putting hormonal teenage girls in command of warships.


As opposed to putting hormonal teenage guys in charge of warships, you mean?

On your other concerns, median age of menarche in the US is 12.43 years (Wikipedia) and dropping gently. I seem to remember Prolong tends to be started somewhere around 13. Besides it may slow development but doesn't stop it.

Since the adult brain doesn't seem to be complete until at least age 18, the areas concerned with controlling risk-taking in particular, one has to wonder on other grounds about the wisdom of letting junior navy officers on Prolong loose on ships before they are functionally adult.
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Re: Horrifying Thought About Prolong
Post by SWM   » Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:54 pm

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SCC wrote:OK, I was over on another board reading a thread about Full Metal Panic and someone made a comment about putting hormonal teenage girls in command of warships. Then I realized something, in Ms. Midshipwoman Harrington Honor, whilst legally 20 her prolong made her appear younger, and from some comments in others book I'm pretty sure she would have been physiologically pre-pubescent at this point.

Didn't her mother try to buy her a night with an escort as a present for graduating the academy?

No, she was not pre-pubescent. Generally, you don't even get prolong until you at least 16. Besides, she was older than 20 when she was a midshipman.

For David Weber's comments, see:
http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... ngton/25/1
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Re: Horrifying Thought About Prolong
Post by cthia   » Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:59 pm

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What is the maximum age that prolong can be administered?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Horrifying Thought About Prolong
Post by SWM   » Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:37 pm

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cthia wrote:What is the maximum age that prolong can be administered?

It's listed in that infodump I cited--it depends on which version of prolong. Quoting the section for Third Generation Prolong:
Third Generation Prolong: May be administered up to the age of about 18-19; normally administered about 16; may be administered pre-puberty but virtually never is. Aside from the case covered in the 3rd sentence of the next paragraph, 3rd generation prolong works equally well for everyone, regardless of genetic makeup. Stops the aging process in the early 20s. Does not slow physical healing times and/or extend pregnancy periods, etc.

In addition to the above, 2nd and 3rd generation prolong are expected to extend the "frozen" aging process by about 20% and 33%, respectively, over 1st generation prolong. (That is, they will both stop the aging process earlier and keep it stopped longer.) Also, for reasons which are still subject to investigation, it does appear that the children of prolong recipients respond more strongly to the same or later generations of the prolong therapies. 3rd generation also plays less havoc with hormone balances and so forth than 1st or 2nd generation prolong.


So, basically, the younger crewmembers of the Fearless looked like they were about 20 or so, plus or minus individual quirks (some people always look younger than others the same age). The comments about how young they looked generally came from people who were not used to seeing third generation prolong. In the case of Grayson men, most of the comments were deliberately denigrating, leading them to exaggerate how young they looked.
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Re: Horrifying Thought About Prolong
Post by cthia   » Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:09 pm

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SWM wrote:
cthia wrote:
What is the maximum age that prolong can be administered?

It's listed in that infodump I cited--it depends on which version of prolong. Quoting the section for Third Generation Prolong:
Third Generation Prolong: May be administered up to the age of about 18-19; normally administered about 16; may be administered pre-puberty but virtually never is. Aside from the case covered in the 3rd sentence of the next paragraph, 3rd generation prolong works equally well for everyone, regardless of genetic makeup. Stops the aging process in the early 20s. Does not slow physical healing times and/or extend pregnancy periods, etc.

In addition to the above, 2nd and 3rd generation prolong are expected to extend the "frozen" aging process by about 20% and 33%, respectively, over 1st generation prolong. (That is, they will both stop the aging process earlier and keep it stopped longer.) Also, for reasons which are still subject to investigation, it does appear that the children of prolong recipients respond more strongly to the same or later generations of the prolong therapies. 3rd generation also plays less havoc with hormone balances and so forth than 1st or 2nd generation prolong.


So, basically, the younger crewmembers of the Fearless looked like they were about 20 or so, plus or minus individual quirks (some people always look younger than others the same age). The comments about how young they looked generally came from people who were not used to seeing third generation prolong. In the case of Grayson men, most of the comments were deliberately denigrating, leading them to exaggerate how young they looked.

Thanks for the info dump. Since this thread comprises horrifying thoughts about prolong, I have one. In cases where it isn't too late, should prolong be used as punishment, as part of a horrible criminal's sentence of "life" in prison?

I wonder how that would even work today? There are cases where criminals are sentenced to several life sentences. In the Honorverse, if that sentence occurs while 18, medical science can ensure that those life sentences are completed!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Horrifying Thought About Prolong
Post by JohnRoth   » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:58 pm

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I don't see using prolong to extend life sentences, for the simple reason of expense: it costs a lot to keep someone in durance vile, let alone prison. A life sentence is basically a way of insuring that the person never gets out to rejoin society and do whatever they did to earn the sentence, by a society that's too squeamish to simply execute the bastard.

Note - I had something extremely horrifying involving [censored] and [expurgated], but I wasn't able to figure out how to format it so it wouldn't show up unless someone selected it. How to do that?
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Re: Horrifying Thought About Prolong
Post by cthia   » Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:08 pm

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JohnRoth wrote:I don't see using prolong to extend life sentences, for the simple reason of expense: it costs a lot to keep someone in durance vile, let alone prison. A life sentence is basically a way of insuring that the person never gets out to rejoin society and do whatever they did to earn the sentence, by a society that's too squeamish to simply execute the bastard.

Note - I had something extremely horrifying involving [censored] and [expurgated], but I wasn't able to figure out how to format it so it wouldn't show up unless someone selected it. How to do that?

:o I think I'm gonna toss my cookies.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Horrifying Thought About Prolong
Post by SWM   » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:47 am

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cthia wrote:Thanks for the info dump. Since this thread comprises horrifying thoughts about prolong, I have one. In cases where it isn't too late, should prolong be used as punishment, as part of a horrible criminal's sentence of "life" in prison?

I wonder how that would even work today? There are cases where criminals are sentenced to several life sentences. In the Honorverse, if that sentence occurs while 18, medical science can ensure that those life sentences are completed!

That wouldn't work very well in many systems like Manticore, where prolong is guaranteed.
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