Transmission of grav pulses

Weird Harold wrote:

KNick wrote:Without seeing the math, I can't tell if you made a mistake with it. The mistake you did make is in the range estimate you used. It looks like you figured just over a light-month as the average range, when in fact it is less than a light hour.

As I said, it was a very rough estimate, but I did somewhat assume that it wouldn't even be tried without greatly increased range for each buoy/repeater.

I didn't use the buoys in calculating transmission times, just 62xLight for NSpace and 1200XLight for the dispatch boat, both over 30LY.

OK. The time part did look right at first glance. I was just thinking about the number of repeaters you were using. It would not only take an increase in power for the buoy's transmitters, but a huge increase in the sensitivity of the receivers as well. They would need to shrink something the size of a system defense array down to the size of a drone.

KNick wrote:They would need to shrink something the size of a system defense array down to the size of a drone.

They wouldn't have to shrink it much if was going to be placed in interstellar space. A FTL repeater station would also be a tight-beam receiver rather than the omnidirectional requirement of a system defense array. It would be no bigger than half the size of a system array, more likely smaller than a quarter-sized array.

Another moot point though, because a dispatch boat will beat communication speed in N-Space handily and putting the repeaters in H-Space would still require dispatch boats on each end to translate up and down into hyper to send and receive.

Weird Harold wrote:

KNick wrote:They would need to shrink something the size of a system defense array down to the size of a drone.

They wouldn't have to shrink it much if was going to be placed in interstellar space. A FTL repeater station would also be a tight-beam receiver rather than the omnidirectional requirement of a system defense array. It would be no bigger than half the size of a system array, more likely smaller than a quarter-sized array.

Another moot point though, because a dispatch boat will beat communication speed in N-Space handily and putting the repeaters in H-Space would still require dispatch boats on each end to translate up and down into hyper to send and receive.

Spoilsport. Partypooper. I know your last sentence is correct, but it was fun to debate this topic with someone who didn't scream "But I'm right, Dammit.".

Weird Harold wrote:You'd need 300 or more -- at a very rough guess. That would get your message from Apple to Banana in about 5.8 months. Call it six months when you add in retransmission delays.

A dispatch boat traveling in the hyper-band that yields an effective 1200xFTL would make the same trip in around ten days with time in N-space to and from the hyper-limits.

At least if I haven't screwed up the math that's why interstellar Hermes Buoy chains are impractical.

Though they can make sense for binary star systems. Manticore-B is averages only 740 light minutes away. A 12 minute one way signal, and not having to wait for the next dispatch boat to be ready to shuttle over, might be worth 40-50 buoys.

Though I can't remember if we've actually seen text-ev about such a chain being laid - but it's less than twice as far as the one we know had been run out to the Junction. That said, the Junction is has more time sensitive message traffic to Manticore than Gryphon does...

My objection to the whole idea would be on the grounds of continuous movement of the planets and stars. It would need a fleet of small craft to keep the buoys fuelled so their station keeping drives could keep them aligned to each other and the start/end points.

T&R
GJS

I don't think they'd need station-keeping drives. The impression I have of the Hermes network isn't that there are chains of buoys connecting Manticore to Sphinx or Manticore-A to Manticore-B like semaphore towers. It seems to me that the buoys are seeded throughout the system to give FTL comm coverage for naval units, forts, Junction control etc wherever they are. They're more like cellphone towers; you just tie into the the nearest buoy in the network when you want to send a signal.

Dafmeister wrote:They're more like cellphone towers; you just tie into the the nearest buoy in the network when you want to send a signal.

Within the system -- say within the hyperlimit -- Hermes would be like cell towers in an urban area. Outside of the hyperlimit they'd be more like cell towers along a freeway in the western US; a single chain of towers covering the freeway corridor but no bars away from the freeway -- where nobody but cattle and coyotes live.

Dafmeister wrote:I don't think they'd need station-keeping drives. The impression I have of the Hermes network isn't that there are chains of buoys connecting Manticore to Sphinx or Manticore-A to Manticore-B like semaphore towers. It seems to me that the buoys are seeded throughout the system to give FTL comm coverage for naval units, forts, Junction control etc wherever they are. They're more like cellphone towers; you just tie into the the nearest buoy in the network when you want to send a signal.

Yes, once you're in a star system, you can set up enough buoys to make that approach work. Even then, you're talking about a whole lot of buoys that need distribution and maintenance (unless you can run a grav pulse generator off of a couple solar panels, which I highly doubt). Still, not an insurmountable obstacle to be sure.

However, once you move out into interstellar space, that approach becomes impractical; even for a comparatively short distances like between Manticore A and the Junction, or Manticore A and B, maintaining a cell setup is prohibitive, and thus you have to rely on a single line of buoys to those targets, which in turn requires these buoys to make regular adjustments to their orbits so that they can stay in range.

The E wrote:

Dafmeister wrote:I don't think they'd need station-keeping drives. The impression I have of the Hermes network isn't that there are chains of buoys connecting Manticore to Sphinx or Manticore-A to Manticore-B like semaphore towers. It seems to me that the buoys are seeded throughout the system to give FTL comm coverage for naval units, forts, Junction control etc wherever they are. They're more like cellphone towers; you just tie into the the nearest buoy in the network when you want to send a signal.

Yes, once you're in a star system, you can set up enough buoys to make that approach work. Even then, you're talking about a whole lot of buoys that need distribution and maintenance (unless you can run a grav pulse generator off of a couple solar panels, which I highly doubt). Still, not an insurmountable obstacle to be sure.

However, once you move out into interstellar space, that approach becomes impractical; even for a comparatively short distances like between Manticore A and the Junction, or Manticore A and B, maintaining a cell setup is prohibitive, and thus you have to rely on a single line of buoys to those targets, which in turn requires these buoys to make regular adjustments to their orbits so that they can stay in range.

I haven't tried to crunch the numbers, but wouldn't a binary star system take years for the stars to orbit each other? You probably have to refuel, if not refurbish, the buoys often enough that you can just have the maintenance / fuel ship drag them to their new location.

You'll occasionally need to add new buoys as the stars' orbit moves towards apastron (since HoS tells us the Manticore Binary System's stars have an orbit with an apparent eccentricity of 12%). But overall I'd guess it's none of these are major issues; not over a piddly < 14 lighthours.

Weird Harold wrote:

Dafmeister wrote:They're more like cellphone towers; you just tie into the the nearest buoy in the network when you want to send a signal.

Within the system -- say within the hyperlimit -- Hermes would be like cell towers in an urban area. Outside of the hyperlimit they'd be more like cell towers along a freeway in the western US; a single chain of towers covering the freeway corridor but no bars away from the freeway -- where nobody but cattle and coyotes live.

Now Harold, I'm experiencing disgruntlement at your last statement. We do have a few cowboys, sheepherders and hermits outside the freeway corridors... They need to be rescued from "cell hell!"

Don