Court dress in the Kingdom of Manticore -request for data

I recall that the official formal court dress of the nobles of the Kingdom of Manticore is mentioned in a couple of the novels but I cannot remember which one(s) - (blush). I need to know what civilian peers - as opposed to those in the military - wear on the most formal court occassions.

Thanks very much.

IIRC, it would be Ashes of Victory - after Honor's return and elevation to Duchess, she was forced to throw a party, which Elizabeth attended... in a Grayson-style dress. The SKM court dress is somewhat described in contrast.

munroburton wrote:IIRC, it would be Ashes of Victory - after Honor's return and elevation to Duchess, she was forced to throw a party, which Elizabeth attended... in a Grayson-style dress. The SKM court dress is somewhat described in contrast.

Also, Elizabeth wore Manticoran Formal wear when she met the Keys on Grayson -- trousers and tails, IIRC

Essentially, Manticoran Formal Dress is a Black-tie and Tails for men and women. Something like this:



http://celebration-village.co.uk/resour ... rmal/1.png

I think it's a little more extravagant than black tie and tails (the image link isn't linking, btw). My understanding was that court dress was akin to Regency formalwear (frock coat, knee breeches, waistcoat, cravat etc), which would fit with the overall metaphor of the series as it's what was worn when Horatio Hornblower was terrorising the French navy.

Dafmeister wrote:I think it's a little more extravagant than black tie and tails (the image link isn't linking, btw). My understanding was that court dress was akin to Regency formalwear (frock coat, knee breeches, waistcoat, cravat etc), which would fit with the overall metaphor of the series as it's what was worn when Horatio Hornblower was terrorising the French navy.

I brought the link out so you can click it.

I think the truth is somewhere in between -- since "trousers" were specified for Elizabeth's visit to the Keys rather than knee-breeches. I actually picture WWI English styles over Regency styles.

ETA:

Ashes of Victory
Chapter Forty-two
wrote:"Tester, I'm glad that's over!" Benjamin Mayhew groaned as he dropped into a chair. Unlike Elizabeth, he'd shed his formal, eminently uncomfortable robes as soon as possible and wore a pair of slacks and an open-necked shirt without the ridiculous, anachronistic "necktie." Elizabeth had attended in Manticoran court dress, the first time in history that a woman had appeared in the sacred precincts of Steadholder's Hall in trousers. It had no doubt shocked the more fragile souls among the Keys, but it also had the advantage of being quite comfortable. She'd taken off her tail coat, but that was all, and now she smiled as Henry Prestwick handed her a tall, cold drink.

And from the same book as Weird Harold referenced above, but from Chapter 34:

The air car hatch opened, and Elizabeth III stepped out with Ariel. The pad lights illuminated her clearly, and Honor heard Miranda's delighted, appreciative laugh beside her as they both saw Elizabeth's attire. It seemed Honor and her maid were no longer the only traditionally garbed Graysons at the party, and Honor felt herself chuckling evilly as she pictured the effect of Elizabeth's gown on those members of the Star Kingdom's social elite who had lifted their noses at her own failure to don the trousers, tail coat, and ruffled shirt of traditional Manticoran court dress on her visits to Mount Royal. She hadn't refused to wear it because she had any problem with the way it looked. Indeed, its elegantly severe lines would have suited her tall, slim figure far better than it did such plump unfortunates as Earl Sydon or poor Lady Zidaru. Instead, she'd worn Grayson attire as a way to emphasize her dual home worlds, and unlike the sticklers, Elizabeth had understood perfectly.

Italics mine.

Thanks very much every one!!!

Welcome to the forums winterrose. Excellent timing. I was just joking with roseandheather, a forumiss, about her producing a rose that blooms in the winter. Voila!

Interestingly enough, this just came up in a discussion on our Facebook page. Here's what Thomas Marrone came up with a few years back:

https://www.facebook.com/48880203114159 ... 58/?type=1

tpope wrote:Interestingly enough, this just came up in a discussion on our Facebook page. Here's what Thomas Marrone came up with a few years back:

https://www.facebook.com/48880203114159 ... 58/?type=1

And to add to that, some textev describing Court Dress:

Justin fastened the cufflinks and straightened the lace front of the boy's dress shirt. When King Roger I had become the first monarch of the Kingdom of Manticore, he had commissioned an artist to design court dress. His only dictums had been that the new attire would be comfortable, elegant, and equally suited for male or female wear.

The artist had done his work brilliantly, Justin thought as he helped Michael into his jacket. The tail coat worn over tailored trousers had been borrowed from ancient England. The ruffled shirt with its lace cuffs had been taken from a slightly earlier time. There was no hat to create awkward clutter, and the footwear consisted of low-heeled boots that looked elegant while permitting the wearer to stand comfortably for hours.

By tradition, each noble house had its garb tailored in colors corresponding to those of its family's crest—in the case of the Wintons dusky blue trimmed with silver, although the Queen wore the red and gold of the Star Kingdom of Manticore. Awards, marriage alliances, and the like were indicated by slim bands at the cuffs. Since tradition also dictated that the fabrics be sumptuous brocades, a gathering of the nobility was awe inspiring indeed.

Commoners wore clothing of similar cut, but avoided both brocades and color combinations that directly mimicked an aristocrat's heraldry. However, Members of Parliament were encouraged to allude to the district they represented in the colors they elected to wear.

On the few occasions in his pre-Elizabeth life where a uniform would not serve, Justin had opted for rather generic colors. Since his official engagement, however, he wore a combination of Gryphon's bronze and dark brown with bands in the Winton colors at his cuffs. Idly, he thought that before he dismissed his valet, he had better make certain his clothing was ready for tonight. (WH2: Queen's Gambit)

Honor felt herself chuckling evilly as she pictured the effect of Elizabeth's gown on those members of the Star Kingdom's social elite who had lifted their noses at her own failure to don the trousers, tail coat, and ruffled shirt of traditional Manticoran court dress on her visits to Mount Royal. She hadn't refused to wear it because she had any problem with the way it looked. Indeed, its elegantly severe lines would have suited her tall, slim figure far better than it did such plump unfortunates as Earl Sydon or poor Lady Zidaru. (AoV)

Elizabeth had attended in Manticoran court dress, the first time in history that a woman had appeared in the sacred precincts of Steadholder's Hall in trousers. (AoV)

Hamish was in civilian court dress trimmed in the maroon and green of the earls of White Haven, as befitted the civilian head of the Admiralty on his way to a formal meeting with his monarch... (AAC)

She wore the elegantly tailored trousers and jacket of formal Manticoran court dress, and the crowd of Spindalians and off-planet diplomats stepped aside to let her pass. (SoS)

The cathedral was like an immense jewelry box, packed with aristocrats in the formal court dress and colors of their houses and commoners whose sartorial splendor and jewelry tended to put the understated elegance of court dress in the shade. (ART)

With that task out of the way, she'd disappeared with Rivka long enough to help her change out of her wedding gown and into the equally expensive (and equally simple yet elegant) formal court dress badged in Winton blue and silver to which she was now entitled. (ART)

Enjoy!