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Rivka Rebecca? Really?

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Rivka Rebecca? Really?
Post by SorchaRei   » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:02 pm

SorchaRei
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I notice this every time I read ART, and I finally reached the breaking point. Rivka and Rebecca are the same name. It's like naming your son Peter Pyotr, or Mark Marco. I realize that such a thing could conceivably happen on Barrayar, given the formalistic way in which they name their two eldest sons, but on Manticore? Seems unlikely at best. At worst, it suggests that Rivka's family is entirely uneducated with regards to Hebrew, and I'm not buying that.
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Re: Rivka Rebecca? Really?
Post by roseandheather   » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:39 pm

roseandheather
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SorchaRei wrote:I notice this every time I read ART, and I finally reached the breaking point. Rivka and Rebecca are the same name. It's like naming your son Peter Pyotr, or Mark Marco. I realize that such a thing could conceivably happen on Barrayar, given the formalistic way in which they name their two eldest sons, but on Manticore? Seems unlikely at best. At worst, it suggests that Rivka's family is entirely uneducated with regards to Hebrew, and I'm not buying that.


Keep in mind, this series is set two thousand years from now. 'Rivka' may have evolved into a separate name by then. It's not so much 'Peter Pyotr' as it is 'Elizabeth Liliana'.
~*~


I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise
"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."
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Re: Rivka Rebecca? Really?
Post by runsforcelery   » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:57 pm

runsforcelery
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SorchaRei wrote:I notice this every time I read ART, and I finally reached the breaking point. Rivka and Rebecca are the same name. It's like naming your son Peter Pyotr, or Mark Marco. I realize that such a thing could conceivably happen on Barrayar, given the formalistic way in which they name their two eldest sons, but on Manticore? Seems unlikely at best. At worst, it suggests that Rivka's family is entirely uneducated with regards to Hebrew, and I'm not buying that.


You are entirely correct, and I used both names intentionally. What has not yet been revealed in the books --- and may never be, unless it becomes germane to the storyline (I frequently tuck away character attributes and "building blocks" that never see the light of day) --- is that she is named for two different people, one of whom is not Jewish.

I had some of the same problem with Jim Baen when I insisted on naming Haven the Republic of Haven. Jim was worried it would confuse readers, since "everyone knows" the Republic is the good guy and the Empire (or, in this case, Star Kingdom) is the bad guys. There was a very definite reason I wanted Haven to have been a republic, however, and you are seeing it in the restoration of the old Constitution. Likewise, there is a reason Rivka's also a Rebecca, although that may never be worked out in the books. In the case of Haven, I was able to satisfy Jim's worries by adding "Peoples" to the front of the Republic's name; there isn't as simple a "fix" for this one (short of telling the backstory), so I'm afraid you'll just have to grit your teeth or whop me up aside the head with a copy of the book if we ever meet. :)


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: Rivka Rebecca? Really?
Post by SorchaRei   » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:02 pm

SorchaRei
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Location: Seattle, WA

runsforcelery wrote:You are entirely correct, and I used both names intentionally. What has not yet been revealed in the books --- and may never be, unless it becomes germane to the storyline (I frequently tuck away character attributes and "building blocks" that never see the light of day) --- is that she is named for two different people, one of whom is not Jewish.


My son is named for two people. We had three different people we wanted to honor. Their names were Anton, Tony, and Yuri. We chose to honor Anton and Yuri, partly because I couldn't stomach Anton Anthony. Our second choice was to use Tony's last name as a middle name with Anton as the first name. In the end, we went with Anton Yuri, and he goes by Tony. I guess we got all three after all. Part of my teeth gritting is probably due to that whole naming process.

I'm glad to know you did it on purpose. Perhaps it will only drive me halfway crazy from here on out.
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Re: Rivka Rebecca? Really?
Post by runsforcelery   » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:53 pm

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SorchaRei wrote:
runsforcelery wrote:You are entirely correct, and I used both names intentionally. What has not yet been revealed in the books --- and may never be, unless it becomes germane to the storyline (I frequently tuck away character attributes and "building blocks" that never see the light of day) --- is that she is named for two different people, one of whom is not Jewish.


My son is named for two people. We had three different people we wanted to honor. Their names were Anton, Tony, and Yuri. We chose to honor Anton and Yuri, partly because I couldn't stomach Anton Anthony. Our second choice was to use Tony's last name as a middle name with Anton as the first name. In the end, we went with Anton Yuri, and he goes by Tony. I guess we got all three after all. Part of my teeth gritting is probably due to that whole naming process.

I'm glad to know you did it on purpose. Perhaps it will only drive me halfway crazy from here on out.




I had a friend of many years --- who I accidentally used as the model for Col. Hector MacMahon in Mutineers' Moon --- who rejoiced in the splendid name of Maxwell MacGregor MacMillan MacMahon. :roll:

For obvious reasons, he was referred to simple as "Colonel Mac" by everyone who knew him. :lol:


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: Rivka Rebecca? Really?
Post by runsforcelery   » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:57 pm

runsforcelery
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Oh, I almost forgot. Sharon and I carried on the practice of cruel and unusual names. The kids are:

Megan Elizabeth Monira Rice-Weber;
Morgan Emily Monirath Rice-Weber;
and
Michael Paul Alexander Rice-Weber.

So when I hand all these multi-barreled names on characters, I'm only doing what comes natural! :twisted: :lol:


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: Rivka Rebecca? Really?
Post by roseandheather   » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:00 pm

roseandheather
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runsforcelery wrote:Oh, I almost forgot. Sharon and I carried on the practice of cruel and unusual names. The kids are:

Megan Elizabeth Monira Rice-Weber;
Morgan Emily Monirath Rice-Weber;
and
Michael Paul Alexander Rice-Weber.

So when I hand all these multi-barreled names on characters, I'm only doing what comes natural! :twisted: :lol:


Gee! There seem to be an awful lot of names on that list that turn up prominently in the Honorverse! I wonder why that could be?? :lol: :mrgreen:
~*~


I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise
"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."
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Re: Rivka Rebecca? Really?
Post by saber964   » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:13 pm

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runsforcelery wrote: quote="SorchaRei"]
runsforcelery wrote:You are entirely correct, and I used both names intentionally. What has not yet been revealed in the books --- and may never be, unless it becomes germane to the storyline (I frequently tuck away character attributes and "building blocks" that never see the light of day) --- is that she is named for two different people, one of whom is not Jewish.


My son is named for two people. We had three different people we wanted to honor. Their names were Anton, Tony, and Yuri. We chose to honor Anton and Yuri, partly because I couldn't stomach Anton Anthony. Our second choice was to use Tony's last name as a middle name with Anton as the first name. In the end, we went with Anton Yuri, and he goes by Tony. I guess we got all three after all. Part of my teeth gritting is probably due to that whole naming process.

I'm glad to know you did it on purpose. Perhaps it will only drive me halfway crazy from here on out.




I had a friend of many years --- who I accidentally used as the model for Col. Hector MacMahon in Mutineers' Moon --- who rejoiced in the splendid name of Maxwell MacGregor MacMillan MacMahon. :roll:

For obvious reasons, he was referred to simple as "Colonel Mac" by everyone who knew him. :lol:[/quote]

RFC try this when I was in the USN on my first ship we had five guys who had the last name of Young and four who had the last name or variant of Mack. First there was Rodger, James, John, Chris, and finally Mark Young who all reported aboard within a two month window. The four Macks were Wing Mak, Winston Mack, Ivan Mac(last name Polish-Russian of 17 letters) and Mack Kinzi. All this on a Spruance class destroyer.
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Re: Rivka Rebecca? Really?
Post by Imaginos1892   » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:32 pm

Imaginos1892
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runsforcelery wrote:Oh, I almost forgot. Sharon and I carried on the practice of cruel and unusual names. The kids are:

Megan Elizabeth Monira Rice-Weber;
Morgan Emily Monirath Rice-Weber;
and
Michael Paul Alexander Rice-Weber.

So when I hang all these multi-barreled names on characters, I'm only doing what comes natural! :twisted: :lol:

There should be a big sign in every maternity waiting room:

Your kid is going to have to go through high school with that name!

Might not help, but then again it might. Sometimes I just have to wonder, "How could your parents have hated you that much the day you were born?"
-----------------
"Relax, Charlie; I've got an ANgle."
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Re: Rivka Rebecca? Really?
Post by roseandheather   » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:42 pm

roseandheather
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Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:39 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Imaginos1892 wrote:
runsforcelery wrote:Oh, I almost forgot. Sharon and I carried on the practice of cruel and unusual names. The kids are:

Megan Elizabeth Monira Rice-Weber;
Morgan Emily Monirath Rice-Weber;
and
Michael Paul Alexander Rice-Weber.

So when I hang all these multi-barreled names on characters, I'm only doing what comes natural! :twisted: :lol:

There should be a big sign in every maternity waiting room:

Your kid is going to have to go through high school with that name!

Might not help, but then again it might. Sometimes I just have to wonder, "How could your parents have hated you that much the day you were born?"


My brother always asks, when he hears a particular name, "Why do parents hate their children?"

I, meanwhile, decided quite some time ago that any potential baby name had to pass the "President Test": that is, when "President of the United States" is appended to it, it must not look or sound ridiculous.

So even if you've got your heart set on calling your daughter 'Barbie', you really ought to put 'Barbara' on the birth certificate. :mrgreen:
~*~


I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise
"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."
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