Heavy Tri-barrels

Weird Harold wrote:...

We're well aware that real world rotary weapons can't possibly match the recoil-less weight-less weapons possible with Honorverse tech...

I have never heard that the Honorverse physics allows one to project a dart at hypervelocities in one direction without causing a recoil in the other direction. What you save is that the darts are lighter and that there is no jet of gas following the dart (though there might be a jet ahead of it that would add some recoil as well.

Making the assumptions of a 5 gram dart going at 10K fps, each shot is a bit less than twice the recoil of a 180 grain 30-06 shot. Now fire off 100 of those in a second or 2 and that is a truly significant force to try to control by hand regardless of weapon weight.

jgnfld wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:...

We're well aware that real world rotary weapons can't possibly match the recoil-less weight-less weapons possible with Honorverse tech...

I have never heard that the Honorverse physics allows one to project a dart at hypervelocities in one direction without causing a recoil in the other direction. What you save is that the darts are lighter and that there is no jet of gas following the dart (though there might be a jet ahead of it that would add some recoil as well.

Making the assumptions of a 5 gram dart going at 10K fps, each shot is a bit less than twice the recoil of a 180 grain 30-06 shot. Now fire off 100 of those in a second or 2 and that is a truly significant force to try to control by hand regardless of weapon weight.

Well, you could get around most of the recoil problem on a hand pulsor by installing a small presser beam on the butt of the gun, transferring the recoil from the gun held in an outstretched arm directly into the shoulders of the user. Or if you are only worried about recoil pushing the barrel upwards and ruining your aim, you could have a downward facing tractor beam under the barrel of the gun. If it was set up to actuate only when the grav field in the barrel was active, it would allow the user to move while firing.

For shoulder fired pulse rifles, the tractor on the bottom could be angled back, so as to lock onto a piece of armor at the operator's waist. If designed properly, this would allow all of the upward recoil on the weapon to be distributed across the entire back of the user.

I am not saying that this is how it works, all I am saying is that, untill we get specs from on high, you con't assume that we know everything about them. And even then, it is iffy.

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Weird Harold wrote:Pods are not likely to be more dense than a pinnace, so 250 tons is a definitive lower end for the mass of a Mk10 pod. Even five times that figure only roughly matches the mass of ten Mk27C missiles.

How much larger and how much more massive is still an open question.

Pods are definitely more dense than a pinnacle. A pod is designed to hold missiles, and to throw those missiles. A pinnacle is designed to transport people and cargo. Most of a pinnacle's volume needs to be open space.

A pod would only get serviced somewhere with external service equipment. A pinnacle would have to be designed so you can reach vital components while in flight.

If there are any open spaces on a pod, aside from the nine to sixteen holes that are filled with missiles, the the designer is doing a horrible job. A Pinnacle on the other hand, the more open space you can fit into it, the better. It is all about optimizing it for the job it needs to do.

wastedfly wrote:In Shadow of Freedom, had one or was it two guys who were carrying a tri barrel without powered armor as they did not have any marines. They were wearing their armored skin suits. This setup is depicted in House of Steel.

Interesting. I had forgotten about that scene. Did they say if it was a Light, Medium or Heavy Tri-barrel? I don't have a copy of that book.

crewdude48 wrote:Well, you could get around most of the recoil problem on a hand pulsor by installing a small presser beam on the butt of the gun, transferring the recoil from the gun held in an outstretched arm directly into the shoulders of the user. Or if you are only worried about recoil pushing the barrel upwards and ruining your aim, you could have a downward facing tractor beam under the barrel of the gun. If it was set up to actuate only when the grav field in the barrel was active, it would allow the user to move while firing.

So you want to use advanced technology to transfer the recoil to the shooter's soldier, as opposed to the stock? The point is what?

For shoulder fired pulse rifles, the tractor on the bottom could be angled back, so as to lock onto a piece of armor at the operator's waist. If designed properly, this would allow all of the upward recoil on the weapon to be distributed across the entire back of the user.

There is no upward recoil. The force is transmitted directly opposite to the direction of the round. What happens is that the typical weapon is designed and held such that the resistance to going up is less then the resistance to moving back, as going back requires that you move the shooter and a handheld weapon usually weights less then the shooter.

kzt wrote:

crewdude48 wrote:Well, you could get around most of the recoil problem on a hand pulsor by installing a small presser beam on the butt of the gun, transferring the recoil from the gun held in an outstretched arm directly into the shoulders of the user. Or if you are only worried about recoil pushing the barrel upwards and ruining your aim, you could have a downward facing tractor beam under the barrel of the gun. If it was set up to actuate only when the grav field in the barrel was active, it would allow the user to move while firing.

So you want to use advanced technology to transfer the recoil to the shooter's soldier, as opposed to the stock? The point is what?

If you notice, the first paragraph was about hand pulsors, not shoulder fired weapons. Hence the words "outstretched arm" and "hand pulsors." The only handgun I know about with a stock as standard equipment was a fully automatic handgun built by the German's in WWII

For shoulder fired pulse rifles, the tractor on the bottom could be angled back, so as to lock onto a piece of armor at the operator's waist. If designed properly, this would allow all of the upward recoil on the weapon to be distributed across the entire back of the user.

There is no upward recoil. The force is transmitted directly opposite to the direction of the round. What happens is that the typical weapon is designed and held such that the resistance to going up is less then the resistance to moving back, as going back requires that you move the shooter and a handheld weapon usually weights less then the shooter.

Yes, the force is in the exact opposite direction as the round. But what if the barrel of the weapon is above the center of gravity of the weapon? Like in the vast majority of firearms ever made? This would cause some of the force to torque to weapon so as the barrel would wind up higher, and the butt lower, that it began. This torque causes the lighter and free (and more important) end of the barrel to rise much more than it causes the far heaver and braced butt of the weapon to fall. This is what I meant by upward recoil.

If you designed a gun so that a large percent of the recoil was spent trying to torque it up, and then distributed that force against the entire back of the user, said user would be able to A) fire more shots before loosing his aim, and B) fire a round that produced more recoil (ie heavier and/or faster) than one that just slammed it into his shoulder.

jgnfld wrote:Making the assumptions of a 5 gram dart going at 10K fps, each shot is a bit less than twice the recoil of a 180 grain 30-06 shot. Now fire off 100 of those in a second or 2 and that is a truly significant force to try to control by hand regardless of weapon weight.

So Honor's trick finger is uncontrollable?

Weird Harold wrote:

jgnfld wrote:Making the assumptions of a 5 gram dart going at 10K fps, each shot is a bit less than twice the recoil of a 180 grain 30-06 shot. Now fire off 100 of those in a second or 2 and that is a truly significant force to try to control by hand regardless of weapon weight.

So Honor's trick finger is uncontrollable?

From textevs i gather that she effectively uses the whole arm to brace against the recoil and to absorb it.
An arm is a good bit heavier than an average hand weapon, and it´s also braced directly against her shoulder in a way that is vastly better for absorbing the recoil than holding a gun or a rifle is.

So i would actually say it´s likely her finger gun is probably one of the more controllable pulser weapons.

crewdude48 wrote:Well, you could get around most of the recoil problem on a hand pulsor by installing a small presser beam on the butt of the gun, transferring the recoil from the gun held in an outstretched arm directly into the shoulders of the user.

I think you didn´t think enough about the degree of force involved that was suggested by "jgnfld".

Twice that of a 30-06. Even a 30-06 is considered to be a bit on the heavy side for recoil and it´s completely useless for autofire, because you get 1 shot maybe on target and any hit after that is pure luck(or a shooter built like tank).

Merely changing where the recoil hits the shooter wont matter much. The dead weight of the equipment added into the gun could very well be more useful than the pressor effect.

Personal weapons is essentially the part of the Honorverse that i´ve never come up with a way to make sense.

Tenshinai wrote:From textevs i gather that she effectively uses the whole arm to brace against the recoil and to absorb it.

Using the whole arm is difficult when firing from the hip (with your eyes closed and facing away from your target.)

At All Costs
Chapter Thirteen wrote:On the other side of the armorplast, the Steadholder pointed her finger down-range, and a hyper-velocity pulser dart shrieked dead center through the ten-ring of a combat target. She hadn't even raised her hand, and as they watched, she actually turned her head away, not even looking at the targets as they popped out of their holographic concealment . . . and the pulser darts continue to rip their chests apart.

"How does she do that?" Hawke demanded. "Look at that! She's got her eyes closed!"

Prosthetic arms/legs are MUCH lighter than the original... True today, and going to be true tomorrow. The ol' weight/mass applied to tissues not designed for the load becomes VERY uncomfortable to the user. Even when one cuts the nerves etc.

wastedfly wrote:Prosthetic arms/legs are MUCH lighter than the original... True today, and going to be true tomorrow. The ol' weight/mass applied to tissues not designed for the load becomes VERY uncomfortable to the user. Even when one cuts the nerves etc.

Some are, but many are not. The realistic looking artificial limbs are usually designed to be close to the size and weight of the lost limb (or part thereof).

As for recoil, I'm aware that there are methods, techniques and tricks to reduce perceptible recoil. Modern firearms fire projectiles with more muzzle energy than old black powder muskets, and have less recoil due to a number of the aforementioned methods, techniques and tricks.