Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 126 guests

The Problem With Haven? Prolong!

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: The Problem With Haven? Prolong!
Post by namelessfly   » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:56 am

namelessfly

This conforms to my thinking.

Manticore seems to have given people prolong but insisted that they were on their own for retirement beyond a minimal safety net.

The RoH might have had a government funded retirement system with perhaps an already too young retirement age that was then compounded by the introduction of prolong which would might have resulted in a sudden decrease in the number of people entering the workforce 25 years down the road. The effect would be comparable to what is occurring in Europe and Japan now. It isno accident that Greece, Italy and Spain are the countries hardest hit by the recession because they have had the lowest birth rates and the lowest retirement age.

The interesting aspect of demographics is that at a certain point, it does not matter if a society has privately funded verses publicly funded retirement. If the number of retirees istosmall large relative to the younger workers, there will be no market for the assets that they wish to sell to fund their retirement and no workers to produce goods and services for them to buy.

Another issue is immigration. With the exception of Japan, industrialized countries with below replacement level birthrates have tried to keep their demographics in balance by accepting immigrants. This works great if the immigrants are educated or at least productive but not so well if they are ignorant and indolent. It is disastrous if the immigrants are from a profoundly different society that is. Intolerant of it's host society. The civil war in Lebanon should be required reading.

Given the MWJ and the nature of Manticoran societ, I expect that the SKM had no shortage of immigrants while the stratified PRH had none. This would exacberated the demographic issues.


SCC wrote:OK, first of all I'd like to correct a mistake the OP made: These days First World nations are moving away from tax based retirement plans and towards giant savings account system. One view actually suggests that the US never actually had a tax based system (Look at the names used), rather having a single giant savings pool.

These saving accounts have existed in the past under some form of pension plan (Not to be confused with an actual government pension system, this is why they may now be known as superannuation plans). The real change is that contributions based on a percent of your salary are now mandatory and possibly tax exempt.

There's also a couple of things I'd like to correct about prolong.

I doubt that Prolong was ever part of the PRH BLS system, rather it seems to be part of every nation's that can afford it public health care plan, the idea is simple, if people live longer but the amount of time they spend needing government support (At the start and end of their lives) doesn't change the government actually wins, especially in the medium-long term, once the first people to receive it start reaching the old retirement age and don't retire. It was no effect on the social welfare side, apart from the INCREASE in time that the productive part of the economy can be taxed.

The other is age, there was a cap on how old you could be to receive Prolong, but I think there was a minimum age as well, later versions can be given younger (I think) but also definitely have a lower maximum age
Top
Re: The Problem With Haven? Prolong!
Post by SCC   » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:28 pm

SCC
Commander

Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:04 am

crewdude48 wrote:Wasn't there something in one of the more recent books about the RMN having to kick people out at one hundred or there about? It was preprolong, so it must have been one of the stories in Beginings, or in HOS. Any how, if my memory is not fooling me, that would be a very good indicator that the standard retirement age has shifted.

That was in one of the earlier books, and the thing they did was rotating the senior staff, that's why White Haven wasn't a serving member in OBS
Top
Re: The Problem With Haven? Prolong!
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:37 pm

Weird Harold
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4478
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:25 pm
Location: "Lost Wages", NV

SCC wrote:That was in one of the earlier books, and the thing they did was rotating the senior staff, that's why White Haven wasn't a serving member in OBS


White Haven was on half-pay because Janacek was in charge; it had nothing to do with the RMN's policy of rotating officers into fleet duty from staff duty. That was a policy of the RMN before prolong made it even more necessary.
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
Top
Re: The Problem With Haven? Prolong!
Post by lyonheart   » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:25 am

lyonheart
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4853
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:27 pm

Hi Weird Harold,

Quite right. ;)

Then again, an ossified officer would remain ossified regardless of whether he was a CO or still in Admiralty House, but you can certainly salute the attempt to inject some reality into the naval hierarchy by insisting on regular fleet service.

OTOH, while we have no textev, what are the odds Janacek was still on active service during the war?

We have no textev he was, which implies one of Hamish's friends may have returned the favor, if he didn't personally insist on it, or that with the withdrawal of the Conservative Association he too withdrew from active service; certainly his ignorance of the war seems to encourage that view.

L


Weird Harold wrote:
SCC wrote:That was in one of the earlier books, and the thing they did was rotating the senior staff, that's why White Haven wasn't a serving member in OBS


White Haven was on half-pay because Janacek was in charge; it had nothing to do with the RMN's policy of rotating officers into fleet duty from staff duty. That was a policy of the RMN before prolong made it even more necessary.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
Top
Re: The Problem With Haven? Prolong!
Post by Weird Harold   » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:56 pm

Weird Harold
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4478
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:25 pm
Location: "Lost Wages", NV

lyonheart wrote:OTOH, while we have no textev, what are the odds Janacek was still on active service during the war?


I don't have any idea what Janacek's service record might be, but IIRC he was brought back from half-pay to be First Lord for High Ridge. (Which is NOT the same position he held in OBS.)
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
Top
Re: The Problem With Haven? Prolong!
Post by drothgery   » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:32 pm

drothgery
Admiral

Posts: 2025
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:07 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, USA

Weird Harold wrote:
lyonheart wrote:OTOH, while we have no textev, what are the odds Janacek was still on active service during the war?


I don't have any idea what Janacek's service record might be, but IIRC he was brought back from half-pay to be First Lord for High Ridge. (Which is NOT the same position he held in OBS.)

Janacek was retired from the navy (and had been for quite some time; he retired from the Navy so he could fight political battles more effectively -- which suggests that he holds a peerage, despite that never having been stated straight out). First Lord of the Admiralty is a civilian position (though one frequently held by retired navy personnel on Manticore).
Top

Return to Honorverse