Logic behind splitting Lacoon?

Duckk wrote:Not quite that:

“Damned near twenty percent of our total gross product depends entirely on our interstellar commerce,” Quartermain said in a flat tone. “Another fifteen percent will, at the very least, be seriously impacted.”

Duckk wrote:Manticore doesn't have that high of the League's shipping:

“Better than two thirds of our total interstellar commerce—the percentage is higher for freight; lower for passengers and information—travels in Manticore-registered bottoms at some point in the transport cycle, Innokentiy. Almost thirty percent of it travels in Manty ships all the way from point of origin to final destination; another twenty-seven percent travels in Manty bottoms for between thirty and fifty percent of the total voyage. And another ten or fifteen percent of it travels in Manty bottoms for up to a quarter of the total transit.” Her expression was that of someone smelling something which had been dead for several days. “As you can see, simply pulling their own shipping out of the loop will reduce our available interstellar lift by better than half.”

lyonheart wrote:Since the SL has a radius only 150-200 LY deep, evidently now with dozens of wormhole termini penetrating it, it shouldn't have taken that long to reach a terminus and leave, especially given the number now known to be around Beowulf and Sol [so far].

Zakharra wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi Zakharra,

Kudos for some excellent points.

The MMM can charge less because of its lower operating costs due to more automation, but the WHJ and other WHB discounts really seal the deal.

Trying to beat the economic advantages the MMM has always had is going deter most competitors from trying initially if they think there will be quick restoration of service.

So building new freighters will be delayed in many if not most SL systems because they see it as a losing proposition.

Given that Raging Justice was blown, most systems would wait until they had news of the results before risking such investments.

Depending on their location most SL members wouldn't find out until July or possibly August, but then given how effortlessly the GA won, is investing in SL preferred projects all that wise right now?

If Beowulf is going to secede, should they, and will they get a better deal from the GA if they do?

Such questions and negotiations will take more month's [2-3 minimum] so for those that insist on building them [without government subsidies] it may not be until now [October 1922] that construction starts, and at least a year will be probably needed in a good experienced yard if SLN construction times are any indicator.

Given their higher operating costs, the MMM/GA could eventually drive or buy the supposed competition out.

The new solarian polity might have the equivalent of the US monopoly on its coastal traffic, ie local or direct neighbor-to-neighbor traffic might be a local monopoly as well.

We have to wait until 2016 to find out?

Rats.

L


*snip*

I understand that to a point, but unprofitable or not, the entire SL and Verge is getting a very up close and personal example of what happens when someone else controls your shipping and economic strings. Unless the systems join the SEM/RHN/AE, I don't see them as wanting to hand control of their economy to the anyone else since there is no guarantee (even if it is unlikely) that the SEM will become less than friendly and more domineering (all it takes is another High Ridge becoming the Prime Minister and he/she could wreck a LOT of the goodwill the SEM has). Haven and the Andermani have well established reputations for being openly expansionist, and the SEM's recent activities might not be reassuring in that it to has expanded drastically in the last decade.

that said, idff the new polity is a msall one, it might not have any choice in who hauls cargo to form from it, but the larger ones, I can see making a determined effort to make sure -they- control their shipping within their borders at least so if the SEM yanks its freighters, its economy isn't crippled.

munroburton wrote:~35% of the League's GP relies heavily or totally on interstellar commerce, of which about 50% was sustained by Manty freighters. So Laocoon I more or less took out 17.5% of the League's gross product.

SWM wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Since the SL has a radius only 150-200 LY deep, evidently now with dozens of wormhole termini penetrating it, it shouldn't have taken that long to reach a terminus and leave, especially given the number now known to be around Beowulf and Sol [so far].

A point of information, and a question.

First, the League is a lot bigger than 150-200 ly in radius. That is the size of the Core, not the entire League. If you count the Protectorates (which I think that text was intended to do), then the radius of the League is more like 400 ly.

Second, what evidence do you have that "dozens of wormhole termini" lie in the Solarian League? I believe we have evidence of less than a dozen.

lyonheart wrote:Hi SWM,

We have textev and RFC's posts that the SL is/was only 300-400 LY in diameter, so 150-200 LY radius.

The core or 'old league' extends some 60-98 LY from Sol [the last figure from UHH], so the shells go from there
while the protectorates extend out from them to around 400 LY from Sol.

We don't have detailed maps of the whole SL of where the shells stop and the protectorates begin, but the protectorates near the TQ are at least 200 LY deep.

L

SWM wrote:A point of information, and a question.

First, the League is a lot bigger than 150-200 ly in radius. That is the size of the Core, not the entire League. If you count the Protectorates (which I think that text was intended to do), then the radius of the League is more like 400 ly.

Second, what evidence do you have that "dozens of wormhole termini" lie in the Solarian League? I believe we have evidence of less than a dozen.

SWM wrote:A point of information, and a question.

First, the League is a lot bigger than 150-200 ly in radius. That is the size of the Core, not the entire League. If you count the Protectorates (which I think that text was intended to do), then the radius of the League is more like 400 ly.

Second, what evidence do you have that "dozens of wormhole termini" lie in the Solarian League? I believe we have evidence of less than a dozen.

A Rising Thunder wrote:Magellan’s slightly understrength squadron of Saganami-C-class cruisers was a long way from home: four hundred and forty-five light-years from the Manticore Binary System through hyperspace, and three hundred and twenty-seven from Beowulf. Of course, he hadn’t had to make the trip the long way. Instead, he’d moved transited from the Manticoran Junction to Beowulf, then crossed sixty-three light-years from Beowulf to the Roulette System, then transited the Roulette-Limbo hyper bridge and crossed another forty-nine light-years of hyperspace from Limbo to Agueda.

Spreading sunshine and light the entire way, he reflected. Amazing how unpopular we are.

UoHH wrote:The best speed possible in hyper prior to 1273 pd was about fifty times light-speed, a major plus over light-speed vessels but still too slow to tie distant stars together into any sort of interstellar community. It was sufficient to allow establishment of the oldest of the currently existing interstellar polities, the Solarian League, consisting of the oldest colony worlds within approximately ninety light-years of Sol.

Uohh wrote:In addition, of course, the discovery of wormhole junctions and a technique for their use imposed an entirely new pattern on the ongoing Diaspora. Theretofore, expansion had been roughly spherical, spreading out from the center in an irregular but recognizable globular pattern. Thereafter, expansion became far more ragged as wormhole junctions gave virtually instantaneous access to far distant reaches of space.
...
Once initial access to the far end of a wormhole junction had been attained, the habitable world at the far end (if there was one) tended to act as the central focus for its own "mini-Diaspora," creating globular quadrants of explored space which might be light-centuries away from the next closest explored star system.