Seeds of Assassination

Seeds of Assassination

If this post reaches the forums, it means that the MaLign has succeeded in infecting me with their rhetoric and I now believe that I am a sleeper cell. Please do not shoot on sight. Although I can see my fingers moving on the keyboard, I am powerless to stop it. So I may as well enjoy an excursion into The Dark Side.

The primary reason for sting ship escorts and heavy weapons are that the technology available in the Honorverse provides all sorts of avenues whereby attacks -- especially suicide attacks -- can be carried out. For example, one of the attempted assassinations which was thwarted consisted of a suicidal attempt to ram the monarch's armored air limousine with a cargo shuttle. It failed because the sting ships were available to intercept and shoot it down. Handheld anti-air weapons do not have the same kill probability as specialized fighter aircraft, and even if they did, would be useless for intercepting such an attack while the monarch was in flight, since no one on the ground would be able to keep up with them or to provide a moving bubble of protection.

If the Malign chose assassination as a deterrent, how realistically difficult would it be for an entity with so much power and means? I recall how successfully Honor was shot down with a single handheld launcher in HoTQ. How difficult would it be for the Malign to build Q-cargo shuttles with a battery of missiles to shoot down Elizabeth's air-limo. The Malign has the technology to build legitimate Q-cargo shuttles capable of ambushing the limo and delivering an effective attack. Probably won't work more than once. But once is all they'd need. It seems the Queen is much more vulnerable in the air, out from under the protection of Mount Royal Palace.

What are the capabilities of the sting ships. Count?

cthia wrote:Seeds of Assassination
If the Malign chose assassination as a deterrent, how realistically difficult would it be for an entity with so much power and means? I recall how successfully Honor was shot down with a single handheld launcher in HoTQ. How difficult would it be for the Malign to build Q-cargo shuttles with a battery of missiles to shoot down Elizabeth's air-limo. The Malign has the technology to build legitimate Q-cargo shuttles capable of ambushing the limo and delivering an effective attack. Probably won't work more than once. But once is all they'd need. It seems the Queen is much more vulnerable in the air, out from under the protection of Mount Royal Palace.

There was, several centuries ago, a series of assassinations and terror attacks that took down one of the very few confederacy governments that showed signs of serious reform. It would appear that this was done by Mesa, though it hey were "never solved". So they have done this.

Q-cargo shuttles? Have you been smoking Skimper's pipe?

It'd be cheaper and simpler to just use those same hand-held launchers that took down Honor's shuttle(in FiE) or the InSec chief in SVW. Granted, the fact that VIP transports are escorted by sting ships mean the attack team will either need enough launchers for all airborne units or be caught quickly after the fact.

IIRC, that launcher could be carried in an oversized bag. Much more discreet than a cargo shuttle with gun-sized hatches all over its hull and a vastly reduced cargo capability, IMO.

Hey, I voted for Bill Clinton. Therefore, "I did not inhale."

Handheld anti-air weapons do not have the same kill probability as specialized fighter aircraft...

Also, the fact that the Queen changes her travel patterns may make it a bit difficult for that type of attack. Why would a Q-cs need to have so many missile hatches? What about one or two, with fast cycle missile launchers and a programmed arrive-in-tandem technology? The Malign's past assassins were not too concerned with getting caught.

My point is this, what is the feasibility of the Malign building a specialized atmospheric attack vehicle, if they wanted to really step up their tactics of assassination? This way they remain out of the range of the cats.

No other navy had the means to take assassination to the next level, and it seems to be somewhat agreed that the Malign needs to remain in the shadows. Assassination gives them both. A successful high-tech-assisted level of assassination would really deliver.

Biggest problem is it providers WAY TOO MUCH physical evidence. Nation states start to get pissed when outside entities, even entities that are soley fronts for deep conspiracies, start knocking out their elites. Random assainations with the trail of evidence dying with the shooter are one thing --- buying, building and deploying multiple 100 ton vehicles with unique mission requirements is another.

cthia wrote:Hey, I voted for Bill Clinton. Therefore, "I did not inhale."

Handheld anti-air weapons do not have the same kill probability as specialized fighter aircraft...

Also, the fact that the Queen changes her travel patterns may make it a bit difficult for that type of attack. Why would a Q-cs need to have so many missile hatches? What about one or two, with fast cycle missile launchers and a programmed arrive-in-tandem technology? The Malign's past assassins were not too concerned with getting caught.

My point is this, what is the feasibility of the Malign building a specialized atmospheric attack vehicle, if they wanted to really step up their tactics of assassination? This way they remain out of the range of the cats.

No other navy had the means to take assassination to the next level, and it seems to be somewhat agreed that the Malign needs to remain in the shadows. Assassination gives them both. A successful high-tech-assisted level of assassination would really deliver.

Remember, Elizabeth knows about assissination (having had her father killed and survived at least one attempt (that we have in textev) on her life.

I rather think she is quite Security conscious and Colonel Shemais is quite possibly the most paranoid individual in the Galaxy (except perhaps for Sheila Thiessen, Eloise Prichard's bodyguard--and wouldn't the first meeting of those two be an interesting sideline...).
And we're not evening mentioning Ariel.

So any attempt would have to be massive, have deep inside information, and completley secure.

Not impossible, but I would point out that President Obama, for all the hatred he has endengered by being 'black', has had exactly zero attempts on his life in the past 6 years--and I doubt that hasn't been because there are not folks out there who wouldn't kill him in a minute--but security is much better since Kennedy and no visitor cold get in shaking hands distance with a pistol like Giteau did with Garfield (or was it McKinley?)

And Elizabeth's security has many more tools than the Secret Service has today.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

fester wrote:
Biggest problem is it providers WAY TOO MUCH physical evidence. Nation states start to get pissed when outside entities, even entities that are soley fronts for deep conspiracies, start knocking out their elites. Random assainations with the trail of evidence dying with the shooter are one thing --- buying, building and deploying multiple 100 ton vehicles with unique mission requirements is another.

cthia wrote:
Hey, I voted for Bill Clinton. Therefore, "I did not inhale."

Handheld anti-air weapons do not have the same kill probability as specialized fighter aircraft...

cthia also wrote:
Also, the fact that the Queen changes her travel patterns may make it a bit difficult for that type of attack. Why would a Q-cs need to have so many missile hatches? What about one or two, with fast cycle missile launchers and a programmed arrive-in-tandem technology? The Malign's past assassins were not too concerned with getting caught.

My point is this, what is the feasibility of the Malign building a specialized atmospheric attack vehicle, if they wanted to really step up their tactics of assassination? This way they remain out of the range of the cats.

No other navy had the means to take assassination to the next level, and it seems to be somewhat agreed that the Malign needs to remain in the shadows. Assassination gives them both. A successful high-tech-assisted level of assassination would really deliver.

If 'paper trails' is the only problem, then we've (Malign) got this thing licked. The Honorverse has shown us time and again that money trails are easy to cover and/or make appear it's the sponsor-child of someone else. The Malign has been in the shadows for six centuries. Burying paper trails is something a 5-yr-old Maligner can do. Call it Malign 101.

I think it would be much easier to trick-out a cargo shuttle. Besides, textev states that a cargo shuttle has already been used. It just had no firepower, and attempting to ram the Queen's limo is a bit more low-tech than what I am presuming.

And if the Malign can get ground launched handheld missiles into the mix as well—part of a well planned dual prong attack on several threat axis, ground based and air, well the Malign has just boosted its chances of success... stratospherically.

If you're planning on using a shuttle, why use missiles? Why not mount something like a Pinnace-grade laser? After all, using a missile means your attack has to rely on your ability to overwhelm the defender's active and passive defenses and will expose your firing platform for some time while you get a lock on your target; a Laser, by comparison, only requires you to be in range of the target.

Of course, that still leaves open the question of why you'd want to do this in the first place, seeing as how it doesn't solve any of your problems but will instead create a plethora of new ones.

Hutch wrote:
Remember, Elizabeth knows about assissination (having had her father killed and survived at least one attempt (that we have in textev) on her life.

I rather think she is quite Security conscious and Colonel Shemais is quite possibly the most paranoid individual in the Galaxy (except perhaps for Sheila Thiessen, Eloise Prichard's bodyguard--and wouldn't the first meeting of those be an interesting sideline...).
And we're not evening mentioning Ariel.

So any attempt would have to be massive, have deep inside information, and completley secure.

Not impossible, but I would point out that President Obama, for all the hatred he has endengered by being 'black', has had exactly zero attempts on his life in the past 6 years--and I doubt that hasn't been because there are not folks out there who wouldn't kill him in a minute--but security is much better since Kennedy and no visitor cold get in shaking hands distance with a pistol like Giteau did with Garfield (or was it McKinley?)

And Elizabeth's security has many more tools than the Secret Service has today.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

Indeed Hutch. Everything you said I doubly agree.

However, I do not think that even Colonel Shemais or Sheila Thiessen ever contemplated a serious state funded attack from the likes of an organization that has remained hidden, flying under the radar, for six centuries with the economic, technical, political and biological resources for assassination — who already have key people, in high social if not governmental places ready to throw in.

The Malign has always been reluctant in using the nanotech. I am simply envisioning a Malign gone all-in, or rather as far in as to still remain within shadows.

You can't argue that the Malign is poised to up the ante on assassination. They can rewrite the playbook on it...actually they already have with the bio weaponry.

Water, fertilize and grow those seeds of assassination. An aerial attack on Elizabeth outside Mt. Royal Palace would totally exclude the treecats from close proximity detection. And it would be totally unexpected on such a high level of planning and resources.

Hutch wrote:So any attempt would have to be massive, have deep inside information, and completley secure.

That is exactly what I am contemplating—a massive, well funded, well planned, high-tech, biologically supported, unprecedented assassination attempt. If it is not achievable it is certainly at least attainable and quite arguable achievable considering the track record of the entity in the shadows.

Colonel Shemais and Sheilia Thiessen?
Foraker and Hemphill?

That's the kind of shit, talk and coffee, the Malign just can't sit around and let hit the rotary air impeller, or the sucking fan!

The Malign has got to set a few monkies with wrenches free!


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There hasn't been serious attacks on Obama because many people simply claim to dislike him in order to hide the fact that they do.

The E wrote:If you're planning on using a shuttle, why use missiles? Why not mount something like a Pinnace-grade laser? After all, using a missile means your attack has to rely on your ability to overwhelm the defender's active and passive defenses and will expose your firing platform for some time while you get a lock on your target; a Laser, by comparison, only requires you to be in range of the target.

Of course, that still leaves open the question of why you'd want to do this in the first place, seeing as how it doesn't solve any of your problems but will instead create a plethora of new ones.

In range of sting ships? But they'll blow you out of the air long before you get into laser range.

Of course, that still leaves open the question of why you'd want to do this in the first place, seeing as how it doesn't solve any of your problems but will instead create a plethora of new ones.

For the same reason Haven once used assassination to remove Elizabeth's father. To replace the current hard as nails, tough soul of steel of a Monarch the Malign is facing now. I don't know what kind of a leader the Prince would become, but it has to be considered a chance worth taking for the Malign. Also would knock the GA off balance and buy more time for the Malign.

Also, an all-in would include an attempt against Pritchart and Benjamin as well. Eliminate Elizabeth and Pritchart and the GA may crumble.