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| Making your own rules | |
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by aairfccha
» Thu May 29, 2014 9:29 am
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aairfccha
Posts: 206
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The Eridiani Edict legitimises kinetic strikes against a planet when the attacker controls the orbits.
Now, what happens if a star nation (possibly with a relatively weak navy) declares to respond to any such strike in kind, no matter who controls the orbit? In the oncoming messy times this might be not that unlikely. |
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| Re: Making your own rules | |
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by Hutch
» Thu May 29, 2014 11:10 am
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Hutch
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In EE, I believe planetary kinetic strikes are legitimate if the attacker controls the orbitals and the planet still refuses to surrender. Also, I believe (albeit it may be more custom than edict) that the kinetic strikes will target military targets, not purely civilian ones (although that can leave a large target field open--see Dresden, firebombing of). For example, Therekov at Mobius controlled the orbitals and called on the authorities to surrender. They refused, and he whacked them (along with some significant civilian deaths) with a KE hit. So no EE violation (though I suspect that the SL will try to spin it that way...) However, I would think a weak star nation, with their orbitals occupied and presumably most of their fleet destroyed is not likely to threaten destruction to people who are 150 miles overhead and can most certainly destroy them. That said, I could see some Verge planet conquered and subsequently bombed by some nasty neighbor, and surviving elements of that planet's forces carrying out an EE in retaliation. Just not as a policy--that will tend to get you talked about and make your neighbors suspicious enough to band together and take you out first (especially if you haven't a pot to pi...micturate in). IMHO as always. YMMV. ***********************************************
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. What? Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here! Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM! -LT. Cmdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5 |
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| IN REALITY THERE ARE NO RULES | |
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by HB of CJ
» Thu May 29, 2014 4:57 pm
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HB of CJ
Posts: 707
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We must understand that this is a Fun Forum based upon a series of very well written future history Space Opera novels. Actually nothing more. Based inside that, we all tend to gravitate, (pun intended..ouch!) to future rules of man, including future specific imaginary rules of war.
The reality is that a weak space navy nation or even a non nation and just a group of mega corporations, (MAlignment?) OR even a large well equipped pirate group COULD wipe out multiple planets just by using well hidden, disguised, (spell check not working and I am having a bad day)... ...high velocity, (very high) missile casings or even for that matter just well disguised big nickel iron asteroids. Even an old used up stealthed freighter ramming at a high cee velocity would completely ruin a biosphere. Thus the rub. In war, all notion of civilized behavior goes out the airlock. And...that is just one reason out of many why the GA, (Grand Alliance) will be toast when the Sollies or the MAlighnment or anybody with a real Vendetta with their backs against the wall...can and may resort to other measures AND have the ways and means of doing so. Yikes! Holly Molly! Just my opinion. HB of CJ (old coot) Lt.Cm. Last edited by HB of CJ on Thu May 29, 2014 5:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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| Re: Making your own rules | |
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by Duckk
» Thu May 29, 2014 5:07 pm
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Duckk
Posts: 4200
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And it's also why the Sollies would never ever go for genocidal planet killing attacks. Do you think the Alliance's navy is just going to disappear overnight in the aftermath of such an attack? The Alliance is fully capable of retaliating in the event of such a horrific attack. What stops Edict violations from occurring isn't prevention, it's retaliation. MAD is still operable in the future. -------------------------
Shields at 50%, taunting at 100%! - Tom Pope |
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| Re: Making your own rules | |
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by Jonathan_S
» Thu May 29, 2014 6:16 pm
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Jonathan_S
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Yes, the firepower needed to devastate an undefended planet is easily within reach of even a small corporation, much less a pirate force. But undefended is the key word. You can't kill a planet with kinetic bombardment as long as it has a few impeller driven ships around to catch the projectiles on their wedges. Even a merchant ship's wedge is plenty to stop any kinetic strike. So to kill a planet that way you first need to draw off or destroy any impeller powered ships in the vicinity. (Or launch so many simultaneous impactors that the defending ships can't interpose against all of them at once; but in a more developed star system there's a decent chance they can generate sufficient wedge coverage to protect the entire disc of the planet) Against many verge or beyond planets that's easy enough, as they don't necessarily even have LACs to defend themselves. with no military defenses any armed pirate could check for and destroy the unarmed ships, or shuttles, around the planet - the nback off and launch kinetic attacks. [Though, as an aside, I'm not sure why a pirate would bother; it involves risk and expense with no apparent financial reward. And if any hint that they were responsible got around they'd be dead men walking. Even people happy to normally do business with pirates would likely turn in or kill any crew crazy and stupid enough to engage in genocide. Way too high profile a crime and way too much risk in knowingly dealing with someone who committed that.] But if as you imply, the League wanted to (backs against the wall) launch genocidal strikes against GA systems they have to either lure the defending LAC wings (plus any other warships) way out of position, or else have to defeat them to clear a shot at the planet. Oh, and it's not like missile wedges can't be used against kinetic projectiles, so you'll have to clear the system defense pods as well. I don't see a chance in hell a League force would last long enough to pull that off. (And that's even before you consider the mutually assured destruction that Duckk pointed out is the result of success) |
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| Re: Making your own rules | |
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by Annachie
» Thu May 29, 2014 6:29 pm
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Annachie
Posts: 3099
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With the MAlign probably wanting to trash the GA's reputation, I can see a few stealthed EE attacks around the borders of the Talbot quadrant.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ still not dead.  |
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| Re: Making your own rules | |
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by drothgery
» Thu May 29, 2014 7:03 pm
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drothgery
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A universe where planet-killing attacks are even remotely acceptable is not one the MAlign wants. They'd like to have a galaxy left to rule. |
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| Re: Making your own rules | |
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by Duckk
» Thu May 29, 2014 7:04 pm
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Duckk
Posts: 4200
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1745&p=33494 An awful lot of people seem appallingly willing to consider that Mesa is perfectly prepared to start knocking off planets ‘if only’ it can find a way to lay the blame for the attacks on the SEM, but I doubt very much that would be the case, if only because of the difficulty of doing that without it’s coming home to bite the people who tried it and because if they did manage to create a situation in which people started planet-busting, the SEM would --- with enormous regret but great rapidity --- start busting the planets of anyone who tried to give them the same treatment in retaliation . . . and the Grand Alliance is going to be able to do it better than anyone else for the foreseeable future. -------------------------
Shields at 50%, taunting at 100%! - Tom Pope |
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| Re: Making your own rules | |
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by Annachie
» Thu May 29, 2014 7:30 pm
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Annachie
Posts: 3099
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Strangely Duckk, it's only a small step from what they've alread done, and you could easily argue that the only reason they haven't done it already is that they haven't needed to, not lack of will or fear of retaliation.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ still not dead. |
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| Re: Making your own rules | |
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by Duckk
» Thu May 29, 2014 7:37 pm
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Duckk
Posts: 4200
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As was explained in MoH, the Alignment isn't interested in committing Edict violations when it's pretty obvious only they have the technical capability to carry off undetectable attacks. The MAN doesn't care about the morality of the Edict, but they firmly respect the practicality of it.
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Shields at 50%, taunting at 100%! - Tom Pope |
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