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Honorverse ramblings and musings

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:37 pm

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cthia wrote:If the Masadans would want the treatment it would probably represent a conflict of interest for Allison-honoring the Hippocratic Oath or 'sleeping with the enemy'.


I don't think Dr. Allison Harrington would see any moral conflict. I think the problem and cure has been identified to the Masadan Occupation force, and offered to Masadans. I don't see any particular reason for Dr. Harrington to be present, or even publicly credited with the treatment; any competent Geneticist could apply the knowledge and Dr. Harrington has several practices on three planets already; she doesn't need more.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:43 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:If the Masadans would want the treatment it would probably represent a conflict of interest for Allison-honoring the Hippocratic Oath or 'sleeping with the enemy'.


I don't think Dr. Allison Harrington would see any moral conflict. I think the problem and cure has been identified to the Masadan Occupation force, and offered to Masadans. I don't see any particular reason for Dr. Harrington to be present, or even publicly credited with the treatment; any competent Geneticist could apply the knowledge and Dr. Harrington has several practices on three planets already; she doesn't need more.

We weren't aware it had been shared. Thanks for the update Harold. Can you recall the book?

And the concern was not for any direct moral objections of Allison, but a concern that Grayson proper wouldn't want Allison to help their mortal enemies.

Edit:
Remember HotQ? Houseman suggested Grayson trade with Masada. That suggestion was hillarious to Honor, Couvosier and all of the Graysons. Actually, it was offensive to the Graysons of any suggestions to assist their mortal enemies. My friends and I thought sharing such a profound medical breakthrough would fall under that umbrella.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:35 pm

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cthia wrote:We weren't aware it had been shared. Thanks for the update Harold. Can you recall the book?


There's no textev that it has been shared, just my thought that it would have been shared/published.

cthia wrote:And the concern was not for any direct moral objections of Allison, but a concern that Grayson proper wouldn't want Allison to help their mortal enemies.


The Masadan Occupation Force as describe in AoV Chapter Forty-four is conducting a "hearts and minds" campaign and providing modern medical care to those who wish to take advantage; they're winning over a significant portion of Masadans. I see no reason why the information about the gene-modification and its side-effect should be with-held from Masadans. I don't think most Graysons would object to "humanitarian aid" in any case.


cthia wrote:Edit:
Remember HotQ? Houseman suggested Grayson trade with Masada. That suggestion was hillarious to Honor, Couvosier and all of the Graysons. Actually, it was offensive to the Graysons of any suggestions to assist their mortal enemies.


Yet the assassination of Duke Cromarty and Chanceler Prestwick was made possible by just such economic trade. The ship that fired the RD/missiles was built in Endicott, Transported to Yeltsin in pieces and assembled for use as a sub-light ore carrier for Grayson's asteroid mining. It was owned and crewed by Masadans.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Brigade XO   » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:06 am

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KNick wrote:
SWM wrote:There is nothing in the text that suggests that Santino or Pavel could not study and do tests well enough to pass the Crusher.


There is also no textev to show that they understood anything that they learned at the Crusher. And even the toughest simulation is passable if you know in advance that you aren't really going to die. (No panic factor involved.) In both cases, it was the panic factor that led to their poor choices.


Did they reach their then current level of command prior to satisfactory completing The Crusher becoming nessisary to hold a particular level of command, at least on the tactical command?
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Brigade XO   » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:31 am

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Haven was using Masada as a source of "useful idiots". Masada didn't actually have any other thing to offer Haven other than a way to get Grayson. That would be a cover to takeing Grayson both out of play as a potential ally of Manticore, mostly for spatial position in the comming campaign against Manticore.

Not sure Haven was looking for any kind of economic gain other than forcing Grayson to take Haven products as a captive market since my the standards Haven and Manticore were operating with, Grayson was very much lower on a techno basis. Also from the Haven point of view, both Masada and Grayson were in the fringe (actual nutcase level for Masada) range with religion as a driving force for the government and population to be particularly useful.

I think Haven would have perhaps just treated the Surviving Graysons (it would have been an awful mess if Masada had been able to actually land significant troops to take the planet) once Masada had control of the orbitals (and Haven could "move in to restore order) as a captured planet and keep the boot firmly planted on them. With Masada, Haven might have ended up having to act more like OFS with actually having to put a serious occupation force on the ground (way more than the present Manticore force). Masada would have been effectivly useless to Haven because between the ACTIVE religious problems Masada represents and their lack of education etc, they would never make anything usefull except perhaps State Security "pacification" troops and -particularly with the Masadan view of "other" religions and lack of practicing the Masadan version- highly disruptive anywhere they could be put.

The actual relations and respect by (the vast majority) of Manticorian of and for the Graysons was vastly differnet thatn Haven for Grayson even before Harrington etc on that first mission.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by lyonheart   » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:37 am

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Hi Brigade XO,

I suspect the crusher goes to some lengths to make it as real as possible, NTM the twists of real life experience that would expose their limited talents rather glaringly.

I'd argue the detailed results were kept secret, to avoid embarrassing so many aristocrats, though their classmates knew the truth.

We have plenty of textev that political and family influence could help idiots pass the crusher etc, just enough to advance their careers, as various persons wondered how either could have passed.

I suspect that was a major reason for Courvosier's among others reforms, because it was known it 'leaked'.

We've seen the same here, where the State Dept wanted the Army to graduate 'Baby Doc' Duvalier thru CGSC when he never attended a single day of class, chasing 'starlets' in Hollywood instead, though in that case, despite the political pressure the Army was able to refuse.

L


Brigade XO wrote:
KNick wrote:**quote="SWM"**There is nothing in the text that suggests that Santino or Pavel could not study and do tests well enough to pass the Crusher.**/quote**

There is also no textev to show that they understood anything that they learned at the Crusher. And even the toughest simulation is passable if you know in advance that you aren't really going to die. (No panic factor involved.) In both cases, it was the panic factor that led to their poor choices.


Did they reach their then current level of command prior to satisfactory completing The Crusher becoming nessisary to hold a particular level of command, at least on the tactical command?
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:12 am

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Is my quick observation correct in that treecat adoptions always happen opposite sex?

Honor-> Nimitz
Hipper->Rachel Mayhew
Samantha->White Haven, Harold Tschu
Ariel->Elizabeth
Stephanie Harrington->Lionheart

Is that correct? Male treecats adopt female partners and vice versa? Does textev support this? I haven't read Treecat Wars yet, does it explain it?

I never noticed it before.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:26 am

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cthia wrote:Samantha->White Haven, Harold Tschu

Is that correct? Male treecats adopt female partners and vice versa?


When you consider that Samantha is only one of less than a half dozen female treecats to ever adopt anyone, your theory breaks down.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:39 am

cthia
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Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:Samantha->White Haven, Harold Tschu

Is that correct? Male treecats adopt female partners and vice versa?


When you consider that Samantha is only one of less than a half dozen female treecats to ever adopt anyone, your theory breaks down.

As I stated it is not a theory...rather an observation. A quick observation. I was simply inquiring. ;)

And about those other half dozen female adoptions, how did they go?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:55 am

cthia
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cthia wrote:
Is that correct? Male treecats adopt female partners and vice versa?



Ah! I found an answer. Monroe, a male treecat adopted Crown Prince Roger!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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