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Honorverse ramblings and musings

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by tlb   » Sun May 05, 2019 6:35 pm

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cthia wrote:Beowulf did order up a big fat bowl of karma. And, it seems that that karma was delivered in UH, instead of in the future. Technically, UH was the future. Although, the future may hold yet even more SL vengeance against its former family of traitors.

The problem with that statement is that the retribution came from the Mesan Alignment, not the Solarian League. In UH the Solarian League was more bark than bite (except for a few planets that were defenseless).

Perhaps you could chalk this one up to an earlier mess of karma arising from the argument with the Detweilers.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Thu May 23, 2019 5:55 am

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The grist is from a previous post . . .

Indeed, the consensus amongst my friends seems to be that it was nothing short of providence that Honor chose not to join the Church of Humanity Unchained. Leaving her under the covenant of her own faith. Which hopefully shares the same Bible as traditional religions.

Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God

This is quoted literally from Deuteronomy 6:16. The meaning is, thou shalt not try him; or, thou shalt not, by throwing thyself into voluntary and uncommanded dangers, appeal to God for protection, or trifle with the promises made to those who are thrown into danger by his providence.

This should be self-explanatory. If not, essentially, Honor should not have given up her edge, then possibly having to duel anyway.


****** *

Providence
  • divine guidance or care
  • timely preparation for future eventualities

Of course, future eventualities mainly includes the excrement from this can-o-worms hitting the fan.

This can-o-worms is highly religious in nature.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by tlb   » Thu May 23, 2019 8:55 am

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cthia wrote:Honor should not have given up her edge, then possibly having to duel anyway.

To make this clear: are you announcing a change from your previously stated position?
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Thu May 23, 2019 4:29 pm

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tlb wrote:
cthia wrote:Honor should not have given up her edge, then possibly having to duel anyway.

To make this clear: are you announcing a change from your previously stated position?


cthia wrote:. . .the consensus amongst my friends.


Religion is a rather personal thing. I respect my friends and their religious slant. And I agree for the most part.

There are still other considerations I can't so easily sweep under the rug. Do note, personally, I'm forgiving of Honor's decision if we consider how exhausted she was, wounded and drowning in grief. As I've already stated, I can imagine she didn't even think about securing Nimitz. May have even needed his empathy for moral support, s[purring] her on to fight through her pain. I'm simply saying it could cause problems down the road. And, rightly so.

Another thing that has cropped up is this fact: In Honor failing to inform Burdette of her secret, she might possibly have prevented Burdette from declining to fight, thus possibly saving his soul, if, indeed, he was out of alignment with Tester's wishes. Much like the idiots who were responsible for the death of Reverend Hanks and the collapse of The Mueller Middle School, had a chance to repent. And, iinm, one of them did ask Tester for forgiveness.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Tue May 28, 2019 6:23 am

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Just to lighten the load a little . . .

Kael Posavatz wrote:(Trying desperately not to make a pun about how it's a good thing Honor has never taken up golf)


Why? Should she have yelled . . . "fore!" To warn of the danger of a foul swing at Burdette?

Was she about to tee off with an illegal "club?" If she'd divulged her secret, she'd have landed in the fairway instead of ending up in the bunker. If her secret gets out, they'd realize she cheated getting out of the sand trap laid by Burdette. You can't legally touch the ball (crease) before taking a sha wing. We all know it was a simple chip shot for Honor, so why cheat? It was a simple putt. If Burdette had been morally informed, perhaps he'd not have attempted a pitch shot.

Unbeknownst to Burdette, he didn't know he was also playing with a handicap, just like Honor. Though his handicap was much higher than Honor's. In match play, aren't you supposed to be informed of your handicap?

Doncha just love analogies? :lol:

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Tue May 28, 2019 3:14 pm

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One of my friends, the Nascar nut, said I missed one . . .

"Instead of attempting a pitch shot from the high guard position, Burdette should have assumed the low guard position and used a drive-er."

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Fox2!   » Tue May 28, 2019 11:30 pm

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cthia wrote:
Another thing that has cropped up is this fact: In Honor failing to inform Burdette of her secret, she might possibly have prevented Burdette from declining to fight, thus possibly saving his soul, if, indeed, he was out of alignment with Tester's wishes. Much like the idiots who were responsible for the death of Reverend Hanks and the collapse of The Mueller Middle School, had a chance to repent. And, iinm, one of them did ask Tester for forgiveness.


Burdette, by his thoughts, words and actions, thought that the Tester had delivered the foreign born infidel harlot to His judgement through Burdette. He just knew that his superior (tournament) skills would allow him not just to defeat Honor, but to thoroughly destroy her, and through her defeat, not only overturn Benjamin's death sentence against him, but reverse the Mayhew Restoration of the Protector's primacy among the Keys (and the deprecation of the Key's influence).

Burdette did not understand that Honor truly is an incarnation of Shiva, the Destroyer of Worlds (and not just because a laser head missile resembles Edward Teller's Shiva nuclear pumped laser missile defense system). She (and Benjamin) destroyed the existing structure of Grayson. She restored Marsh to its people, destroying the pirate nest. And she (and Hamish, of course) established the conditions necessary for Tom Theissman to overthrow the Committee for Public Safety under Oscar St. Just.

The Salamander is always found where the fire is hottest. On that day, the fire was hottest in the Keys. Burdette didn't recognize that he was just the fuel for the fire.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by kzt   » Wed May 29, 2019 8:34 am

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Nicely said.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Fox2!   » Wed May 29, 2019 9:27 am

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One last thought -

"Never go in against a Salamander when death is on the line"


Borrowed from some Sicilian in a movie about Pirates and Princesses to be wed.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Wed May 29, 2019 10:55 am

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Fox2! wrote:
cthia wrote:
Another thing that has cropped up is this fact: In Honor failing to inform Burdette of her secret, she might possibly have prevented Burdette from declining to fight, thus possibly saving his soul, if, indeed, he was out of alignment with Tester's wishes. Much like the idiots who were responsible for the death of Reverend Hanks and the collapse of The Mueller Middle School, had a chance to repent. And, iinm, one of them did ask Tester for forgiveness.


Burdette, by his thoughts, words and actions, thought that the Tester had delivered the foreign born infidel harlot to His judgement through Burdette. He just knew that his superior (tournament) skills would allow him not just to defeat Honor, but to thoroughly destroy her, and through her defeat, not only overturn Benjamin's death sentence against him, but reverse the Mayhew Restoration of the Protector's primacy among the Keys (and the deprecation of the Key's influence).

Burdette did not understand that Honor truly is an incarnation of Shiva, the Destroyer of Worlds (and not just because a laser head missile resembles Edward Teller's Shiva nuclear pumped laser missile defense system). She (and Benjamin) destroyed the existing structure of Grayson. She restored Marsh to its people, destroying the pirate nest. And she (and Hamish, of course) established the conditions necessary for Tom Theissman to overthrow the Committee for Public Safety under Oscar St. Just.

The Salamander is always found where the fire is hottest. On that day, the fire was hottest in the Keys. Burdette didn't recognize that he was just the fuel for the fire.

Who am I to argue with such eloquence, and I agree.

But!

If only she would have opened her can of whipass—without also opening a can of worms by appearing to cheat, without leaving a question or uncertainty of whether she cheated, without leaving a thread that could unravel and fuel a Constitutional crisis and also unravel the very foundation of Grayson.

I can't help from being a holdout in one respect. Honor didn't make the right decision overall concerning Grayson. All of Grayson, and not just the faction she likes. In the spirit of her gesture while aboard the Andermani warship of not wanting to risk disrespect, a possibility of a misunderstanding, embarrassing her star nation or many other yatta yatta yattas, Honor should have divulged her secret, or, at this point in time, simply secured Nimitz, to remove all doubt and fuel for future repercussions.

This is Honor, every decision she's made has never been for her own benefit or concern. Personally, I'm disappointed that Honor didn't say to herself, "I'm going to dismember this imbecile with one hand tied behind my back, and certainly without my link to Nimitz. That way, no one can later cause pain or grief on Grayson."

Honor has a knack for seeing clearly and removing all obstacles even when her own life is in danger. Her actual decision wasn't a characteristic Harrington decision. But like I said, I personally take her physical and emotional condition into consideration. Yet it still must be said, for truth and the Grayson way, that emotional distress and physical injuries does not excuse making a bad political decision. Neither would it be dismissed by the navy in such cases.

Don't make the same mistake as you always make guys. I'm not pointing out Honor's error for my own sake or to berate her. As you always do, don't make this personal about me. Shamelessly, I'd keep her secret. Though, pointing out her boo boo could keep her and Benjamin from being blindsided in the future. You're all insane if you don't think this secret would be of value to the Opposition.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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