Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Honorverse ramblings and musings

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:54 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 11274
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

Disclaimer: It is impossible to discuss this topic without including religion as we know it. I shall no longer try in this matter. If it offends anyone, you have my heartfelt apology. Offense is not my intention.


I apologize for the lengthy time between replying to this can-o-worms. Blame it on the business of my family life . . . second. And the interesting and poignant counterarguments made by Vince, tlb and others first. I needed time to absorb it all, so that I could reply appropriately. Vince asked me to keep in mind the ultimate outcome and to not miss the forest for the trees. I should at least give him that because he labored so hard in his response, which obviously solicited much thought from him. I owe him that. At the same time I must remain true to myself. Having said that . . .

First order of business. Some of you are making the exact same error and stepping in the exact same trap every time I argue a stance, making it about me, again. It ain't about me. I'm simply the messenger who happens to constantly get himself into controversial trouble because he dares to peek under the skin where angels fear to tread. In a manner, I suppose I could be charged with being a Peeping Tom. However, TBH, in this particular case, I do feel a bit of kinship with what surely would be the stance of the Opposition on Grayson should the truth ever be set free. But in no way does that convict me.

Secondly, what everyone is missing is that we are talking about Grayson. You are all trying to heap secular mindsets and secular attitudes upon the mindsets of a religious people. When in Rome you must act like the Romans. You must think like the Romans. Grayson isn't like their fanatical counterparts, Masada, no. But they are devoutly religious. If you try to analyze how Grayson will react to what I have presented, you must allow for what beats loudly in their hearts and courses through their veins, which is their faith, and what that vesture of faith will mean to the reaction of Graysons to this can-o-worms -- which will undoubtedly be determined by their system of beliefs. Indeed, should be determined by their system of beliefs.

Benjamin's Restoration, though wanting to move Grayson forward as a society, isn't about abandoning their faith. Even if Benjamin wanted to abandon the basis of life on Grayson - which is deeply rooted in faith - he would fail miserably, regardless of how much the many followers of Harrington love her. Again, Grayson owes Harrington and the Star Kingdom a huge debt of gratitude, but they do not owe either of them their soul. Selling their soul to the devil is the charge Mueller and Company levies against Benjamin. Abandoning their belief system would validate that claim. Graysons won't abandon their faith, not even for the love and gratitude they harbor for Harrington. The proof of that is the reality of how close Benjamin's Restoration came to tumbling down when it appeared that it was Harrington's greed of cutting corners to maximize her profits which resulted in the death of children. The buzzards were surely circling carcass for certain. Having said all of that . . .

I cannot believe all of you can't see the distinction in the mindsets of the two dueling systems. They are separately based on . . .

  1. The skills of man. Secular attitudes.
  2. The judgment of God. Nonsecular attitudes. The skills of man.

God does not inseparably factor into Manticoran dueling.

For instance . . .
tlb wrote:You are confusing this with a sporting contest where there are rules about fairness: such as forbidding steroids. Trial by Combat acts under the presumption that God will aid the righteous and strike down the other.

Regardless of what your Christian beliefs may be, that is a secular response, born of infidels.

On Grayson there are rules about fairness! Fairness is innate, inherent. Inseparable. Fairness is part and parcel to their beliefs. Their morals. Their scruples. Their values. It is indivisible as a part of their faith. At the heart of Grayson's faith is Grayson's God. There is nothing unfair about the tenets of God, in any faith! Interjecting unfairness upon the duels on Grayson is enough to bring the house down. To do so would spit on the very sanctity of what is just. To do so would embarrass the Graysons in the eyes of Tester. To do so would eliminate faith that God will judge. Abandoning fairness would signal a complete departure from faith and trust in God. At the very worst, it may cause many to question their religious beliefs. Proof positive of the importance and fear predicated on Star Trek's Prime Directive.

Vince has some very cogent points, but his main stumbling block is the exact same secular mistake . . .
Vince wrote:Burdette's sworn obligation was to the Constitution of Grayson, the Protector of Grayson and his Steading of Burdette, in that order.

Not exactly! There is something very crucial missing from your list. What is it? Only a true Christian who lives his life by faith as the Graysons will readily recognize the error in your logic. First and foremost is the Graysons' obligation to Tester! God should always come first!

"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's". [Matthew 22:21]


I'll trust that you can guess who gets first consideration when there's a conflict of interest. Or rather, who should get first consideration.

This entire notion sits center stage with the Kentucky clerk who refuses to issue a marriage license to gays.

Again. What does a Christian do when secular laws puts him on the wrong side of God? It is one real reason why so many people fight against our current government and its treatment of people seeking asylum - regardless that it is actually written in the law that they may do so.

Vince wrote:If he couldn't in good conscience accept Benjamin's reforms, he should have resigned his steadholdership.

I disagree on the same grounds that was trotted out to me when I argued that Beowulf should have long last left the League. Several people were quick to point out that remaining a part of the League afforded Beowulf a better position in which to rage against the dying of the light. Same with Burdette. It would have been a failure to the Doctrine of his Test as a Steadholder. And a failure to his God given position and obligations as a Key to fulfill the destiny of his Test.

Vince wrote:Instead he decided to conspire to murder innocents as well as Honor, as well as committing treason along the way. He even was told by Mueller of all people that they had reached the limit of what they could do legally to oppose the Church and the Protector*. He and Mueller made the decision to step beyond legal means to illegal, treasonous means, after deciding the ends justified the means . . .

I've been meaning to reread those passages but haven't gotten the chance. I concede those points. But it doesn't change the squirming worms that could cause a Constitutional Crisis. It certainly could and most likely would affect Burdette's legacy. But the Protector and his Champion may still be skating on thin ice.

Everyone stop for a moment and consider this . . .

The galaxy at large is still a bit prejudiced against genies. Even in the Manticoran neck of the woods these exact same secrets are kept. Even QEIII guards the details of her genetic tampering. Grayson didn't even know that they are genies. That was a revelation that came from Allison Harrington.

BUT!

The main difference is Honor's specific abilities which makes the duel against Burdette not only unfair, but deceitful. But most importantly, unrighteous. The unfairness and deceit is "officiated" on a planet whose morals, scruples, values and teachings are inherently against it. It may be foolish to outsiders, just as dueling is foolish to me. It may be even more foolish to non Christians. However, expecting a certain status quo in virtue is not foolish to Graysons, or to any true Christian.

Do any of you understand that Honor is the only human with her ability? Does anyone realize how paranoid humanity would be if someone was to be accused of being able to read minds?

Reading Burdette's mind is exactly what Honor could do as far as detecting the crease. There is a mountain of difference that you can't sweep under the secular rug. Can Honor prove that she didn't use mind reading to defeat Burdette? A true Christian would not want to be a part of any deception and tainting of Tester's way. The danger of fornication with infidels could be highlighted and proved. I see danger lying low like a coiled snake in the grass.

****** *

Vince wrote:As far as Divine order is concerned, the source you cite is at best incorrectly citing Ephesians 6:5-8. The very first result in a Google search for Ephesians 6:5-8, does not sugarcoat the actual words that Paul, not Jesus, said.

I have not tested my theory Vince, but I believe the difference is manifested in the varying versions of the Bible.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by tlb   » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:14 am

tlb
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1129
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:34 am

cthia wrote:I cannot believe all of you can't see the distinction in the mindsets of the two dueling systems. They are separately based on . . .

  1. The skills of man. Secular attitudes.
  2. The judgment of God. Nonsecular attitudes. The skills of man.

God does not inseparably factor into Manticoran dueling.

For instance . . .
tlb wrote:You are confusing this with a sporting contest where there are rules about fairness: such as forbidding steroids. Trial by Combat acts under the presumption that God will aid the righteous and strike down the other.

Regardless of what your Christian beliefs may be, that is a secular response, born of infidels.

On Grayson there are rules about fairness! Fairness is innate, inherent. Inseparable. Fairness is part and parcel to their beliefs. Their morals. Their scruples. Their values. It is indivisible as a part of their faith. At the heart of Grayson's faith is Grayson's God. There is nothing unfair about the tenets of God, in any faith! Interjecting unfairness upon the duels on Grayson is enough to bring the house down. To do so would spit on the very sanctity of what is just. To do so would embarrass the Graysons in the eyes of Tester. To do so would eliminate faith that God will judge. Abandoning fairness would signal a complete departure from faith and trust in God. At the very worst, it may cause many to question their religious beliefs. Proof positive of the importance and fear predicated on Star Trek's Prime Directive.

My secular attitude about Trial by Combat is that it is a stupid way to resolve anything.

Regardless of how fair God may be, life is not fair and that is part of the Test. You ignore how unfair a Trial by Combat can be; it can only be redeemed if God actively intervenes to support the righteous. Consider if the Protector's Champion had been a 90 year old man, who had won the position when young. Forced to fight Burdette, where is your fairness in this case?

I think you building a ramshackle addition onto the Church of Grayson's faith.
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:43 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 11274
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

You truly do not understand faith. Perhaps I need to repost this. Don't gloss over it this time . . .

Remember the story of Samson and Delilah? The Walls of Jericho? David and Goliath? Daniel in the lion's den? God is on the side of the righteous, not the mightiest. Might doesn't make right in God's eye.

The faith of a mustard seed can move mountains. Be it mountains of evil or mountains of people. Strength comes from faith, not by secular magnitude. The bigger they are the harder they fall.


God only requires faith, as little as a mustard seed . . .

E = MC² - a little faith (Mass) goes a long way.

God created all the Mass of the world in six days. Then he said . . .

"Let there be light." So that we can C.
-cthia


"I can't see! I can't see!

"What's the matter?"

"I got my eyes closed."


O ye of little faith.


****** *

tlb wrote:Consider if the Protector's Champion had been a 90 year old man, who had won the position when young. Forced to fight Burdette, where is your fairness in this case?



Life isn't fair. Nor are the people we meet in our everyday walks of life righteous, but God is there to take up the slack, if we would only have faith. If we are not faced with seemingly insurmountable odds, then what is the need for faith? If a 30-yr-old man is the Protector's Champion facing a 90-yr-old man then where is the need for the Protector's Champion to have faith? Our faith truly needs to be strong daily. It needs to be unshakable, at least the size of a mustard seed when we are up against insurmountable odds. I don't need my God to help me crush an egg.

I have faith in that 90-yr-old man. And surely if he has even the smallest amount of faith in God, simply the size of a mustard seed, he shall prevail.

Look towards biblical textev . . .

My favorite example of faith has always been . . .

I just need to touch the hem of his garment.

She didn't feel she needed to actually touch Jesus, she felt that simply touching his garment would suffice. That is such powerfully powerful faith that it always makes my eyes water. Her faith was so strong it drained power from God. E = MC²



cthia wrote:I cannot believe all of you can't see the distinction in the mindsets of the two dueling systems. They are separately based on . . .

  1. The skills of man. Secular attitudes.
  2. The judgment of God. Nonsecular attitudes. The skills of man.

God does not inseparably factor into Manticoran dueling.

For instance . . .
tlb wrote:You are confusing this with a sporting contest where there are rules about fairness: such as forbidding steroids. Trial by Combat acts under the presumption that God will aid the righteous and strike down the other.

Regardless of what your Christian beliefs may be, that is a secular response, born of infidels.

On Grayson there are rules about fairness! Fairness is innate, inherent. Inseparable. Fairness is part and parcel to their beliefs. Their morals. Their scruples. Their values. It is indivisible as a part of their faith. At the heart of Grayson's faith is Grayson's God. There is nothing unfair about the tenets of God, in any faith! Interjecting unfairness upon the duels on Grayson is enough to bring the house down. To do so would spit on the very sanctity of what is just. To do so would embarrass the Graysons in the eyes of Tester. To do so would eliminate faith that God will judge. Abandoning fairness would signal a complete departure from faith and trust in God. At the very worst, it may cause many to question their religious beliefs. Proof positive of the importance and fear predicated on Star Trek's Prime Directive.

tlb wrote:My secular attitude about Trial by Combat is that it is a stupid way to resolve anything.

Regardless of how fair God may be, life is not fair and that is part of the Test. You ignore how unfair a Trial by Combat can be; it can only be redeemed if God actively intervenes to support the righteous. Consider if the Protector's Champion had been a 90 year old man, who had won the position when young. Forced to fight Burdette, where is your fairness in this case?

I think you building a ramshackle addition onto the Church of Grayson's faith.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by tlb   » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:16 am

tlb
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1129
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:34 am

tlb wrote:Consider if the Protector's Champion had been a 90 year old man, who had won the position when young. Forced to fight Burdette, where is your fairness in this case?

cthia wrote:Life isn't fair. Nor are the people we meet in our everyday walks of life righteous, but God is there to take up the slack, if we would only have faith. If we are not faced with seemingly insurmountable odds, then what is the need for faith? If a 30-yr-old man is the Protector's Champion facing a 90-yr-old man then where is the need for the Protector's Champion to have faith? Our faith truly needs to be strong daily. It needs to be unshakable, at least the size of a mustard seed when we are up against insurmountable odds. I don't need my God to help me crush an egg.

I have faith in that 90-yr-old man. And surely if he has even the smallest amount of faith in God, simply the size of a mustard seed, he shall prevail.

Great, so we agree; Burdette's faith should have allowed him to prevail, unless God had forsaken him.
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:43 pm

PeterZ
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 6274
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:11 pm
Location: Colorado

tlb wrote:Consider if the Protector's Champion had been a 90 year old man, who had won the position when young. Forced to fight Burdette, where is your fairness in this case?

cthia wrote:Life isn't fair. Nor are the people we meet in our everyday walks of life righteous, but God is there to take up the slack, if we would only have faith. If we are not faced with seemingly insurmountable odds, then what is the need for faith? If a 30-yr-old man is the Protector's Champion facing a 90-yr-old man then where is the need for the Protector's Champion to have faith? Our faith truly needs to be strong daily. It needs to be unshakable, at least the size of a mustard seed when we are up against insurmountable odds. I don't need my God to help me crush an egg.

I have faith in that 90-yr-old man. And surely if he has even the smallest amount of faith in God, simply the size of a mustard seed, he shall prevail.
tlb wrote:Great, so we agree; Burdette's faith should have allowed him to prevail, unless God had forsaken him.

Burdette could have the greatest amount of faith possible for a human to have and still lost. Assuming Burdette's understanding about God and how God acts in the world was accurate, God would ONLY have supported Burdette if he was fighting in concordance with God's Will. All the faith in the world would not prevent a man from being in error as to what His Will is. Faith, prayer and a willingness to be open to God's Will can guide a person to avoiding that sort of error.

Burdette's mistake with respect to the trial by combat was to equate his faith (as he understood it) with God's Will. Well, if not equate then simply assuming they are concordant. He was wrong and Honor let him discuss his error with God directly.
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Senior Chief   » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:03 pm

Senior Chief
Commander

Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:02 am
Location: Bear Flag Republic

PeterZ wrote:
tlb wrote:Consider if the Protector's Champion had been a 90 year old man, who had won the position when young. Forced to fight Burdette, where is your fairness in this case?

cthia wrote:Life isn't fair. Nor are the people we meet in our everyday walks of life righteous, but God is there to take up the slack, if we would only have faith. If we are not faced with seemingly insurmountable odds, then what is the need for faith? If a 30-yr-old man is the Protector's Champion facing a 90-yr-old man then where is the need for the Protector's Champion to have faith? Our faith truly needs to be strong daily. It needs to be unshakable, at least the size of a mustard seed when we are up against insurmountable odds. I don't need my God to help me crush an egg.

I have faith in that 90-yr-old man. And surely if he has even the smallest amount of faith in God, simply the size of a mustard seed, he shall prevail.
tlb wrote:Great, so we agree; Burdette's faith should have allowed him to prevail, unless God had forsaken him.

Burdette could have the greatest amount of faith possible for a human to have and still lost. Assuming Burdette's understanding about God and how God acts in the world was accurate, God would ONLY have supported Burdette if he was fighting in concordance with God's Will. All the faith in the world would not prevent a man from being in error as to what His Will is. Faith, prayer and a willingness to be open to God's Will can guide a person to avoiding that sort of error.

Burdette's mistake with respect to the trial by combat was to equate his faith (as he understood it) with God's Will. Well, if not equate then simply assuming they are concordant. He was wrong and Honor let him discuss his error with God directly.



Burdette's mistake was also that he had "never" fought a duel where ones death was on line, unlike Honor.
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by ldwechsler   » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:16 pm

ldwechsler
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1235
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 11:15 am

Senior Chief wrote:
tlb wrote:Consider if the Protector's Champion had been a 90 year old man, who had won the position when young. Forced to fight Burdette, where is your fairness in this case?

cthia wrote:Life isn't fair. Nor are the people we meet in our everyday walks of life righteous, but God is there to take up the slack, if we would only have faith. If we are not faced with seemingly insurmountable odds, then what is the need for faith? If a 30-yr-old man is the Protector's Champion facing a 90-yr-old man then where is the need for the Protector's Champion to have faith? Our faith truly needs to be strong daily. It needs to be unshakable, at least the size of a mustard seed when we are up against insurmountable odds. I don't need my God to help me crush an egg.

I have faith in that 90-yr-old man. And surely if he has even the smallest amount of faith in God, simply the size of a mustard seed, he shall prevail.
tlb wrote:Great, so we agree; Burdette's faith should have allowed him to prevail, unless God had forsaken him.

Burdette could have the greatest amount of faith possible for a human to have and still lost. Assuming Burdette's understanding about God and how God acts in the world was accurate, God would ONLY have supported Burdette if he was fighting in concordance with God's Will. All the faith in the world would not prevent a man from being in error as to what His Will is. Faith, prayer and a willingness to be open to God's Will can guide a person to avoiding that sort of error.

Burdette's mistake with respect to the trial by combat was to equate his faith (as he understood it) with God's Will. Well, if not equate then simply assuming they are concordant. He was wrong and Honor let him discuss his error with God directly.



Burdette's mistake was also that he had "never" fought a duel where ones death was on line, unlike Honor.[/quote]

Burdette's error was to assume that what he wanted was the actual will of God.

A lot of fools do this.
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:18 pm

Jonathan_S
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 6045
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:01 pm
Location: Virginia, USA

cthia wrote:On Grayson there are rules about fairness! Fairness is innate, inherent. Inseparable. Fairness is part and parcel to their beliefs. Their morals. Their scruples. Their values. It is indivisible as a part of their faith. At the heart of Grayson's faith is Grayson's God. There is nothing unfair about the tenets of God, in any faith! Interjecting unfairness upon the duels on Grayson is enough to bring the house down. To do so would spit on the very sanctity of what is just. To do so would embarrass the Graysons in the eyes of Tester. To do so would eliminate faith that God will judge. Abandoning fairness would signal a complete departure from faith and trust in God. At the very worst, it may cause many to question their religious beliefs. Proof positive of the importance and fear predicated on Star Trek's Prime Directive.
A ruler classically chooses their very best warrior to be their champion. The intent is to discourage excessive numbers of challenges and to win the ones that are brought. I have a hard time believing that Grayson would be so committed to fairness in trial by combat as to require (or at least to have a public norm for) the Protector to have a champion that is evenly matched with challengers.

And for all these claims of fairness Burdette certainly didn't expect this to be a fair fight. He expected his long training and practice with the sword to let him cut down the novice, Honor, should she be foolish enough to not yield (and thereby grant him victory)


Why is it such an outrage that Honor did not specifically stop to disclose her enhanced musculature and quicker than average reactions[1] but it wasn't an outrage that a master of the sword challenged a novice to a duel to the death!!
Where are these rules enforcing fairness here? If a fair trial was mandatory why isn't Benjamin allowed/required to pick a champion matching the skill and training (or lack thereof) of each challenger?

Or is the contest allowed to be as unfair as a participant likes as long as they announce any and all perceived advantages before using them to win? In that case why isn't that mutual announcement of advantages a formal part of Grayson challenges?

Even the remaining conservative steadholders, who picked on almost anything Honor did in their continued attempts to hold tightly to Grayson's historic practices do not appear to have claimed that she behaved incorrectly, duplicitously, or unrighteously in her duel with Burdette. Given that they were seizing on anything they could to discredit her it seems inconceivable to me that, if her actions were as antithetical to Grayson mores as you say, they wouldn't have made that a major point of their campaign to discredit her!

It looks, to me, like Grayson practices don't match what you feel they would have to be.

[1] She couldn't have disclosed her telempathic ability as she didn't yet realize that she had that - outside of the link to Nimitz. It would be years before she realized that she was becoming able to read human emotions directly
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by tlb   » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:49 pm

tlb
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1129
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:34 am

tlb wrote:You are confusing this with a sporting contest where there are rules about fairness: such as forbidding steroids. Trial by Combat acts under the presumption that God will aid the righteous and strike down the other.

cthia wrote:Regardless of what your Christian beliefs may be, that is a secular response, born of infidels.

tlb wrote:Consider if the Protector's Champion had been a 90 year old man, who had won the position when young. Forced to fight Burdette, where is your fairness in this case?

cthia wrote: Life isn't fair. Nor are the people we meet in our everyday walks of life righteous, but God is there to take up the slack, if we would only have faith. If we are not faced with seemingly insurmountable odds, then what is the need for faith? If a 30-yr-old man is the Protector's Champion facing a 90-yr-old man then where is the need for the Protector's Champion to have faith? Our faith truly needs to be strong daily. It needs to be unshakable, at least the size of a mustard seed when we are up against insurmountable odds. I don't need my God to help me crush an egg.

I have faith in that 90-yr-old man. And surely if he has even the smallest amount of faith in God, simply the size of a mustard seed, he shall prevail.
tlb wrote:Great, so we agree; Burdette's faith should have allowed him to prevail, unless God had forsaken him.

PeterZ wrote: Burdette could have the greatest amount of faith possible for a human to have and still lost. Assuming Burdette's understanding about God and how God acts in the world was accurate, God would ONLY have supported Burdette if he was fighting in concordance with God's Will. All the faith in the world would not prevent a man from being in error as to what His Will is. Faith, prayer and a willingness to be open to God's Will can guide a person to avoiding that sort of error.

Burdette's mistake with respect to the trial by combat was to equate his faith (as he understood it) with God's Will. Well, if not equate then simply assuming they are concordant. He was wrong and Honor let him discuss his error with God directly.

I fail to see how an expectation that a Trial by Combat is a trial of faith and will, where it is hoped and prayed that God would reveal the truth by weighing both sides and siding with the righteous in their cause could in any way be considered secular; praying that God will reveal the truth is by definition non-secular.

The truly secular view of Trial by Combat is that a situation has occurred where society requires one side in a dispute to win and the other to lose; in the absence of a way to know which is better for society, then a decision that is at best arbitrary is as good as any other.

The non-secular view is that God knows the truth of the faiths of the combatants in both quantity and quality and can decide who is more righteous as PeterZ writes. You are willing to say that the faith of a 90 year old Champion would trump the faith, expertise and prowess of Burdette, but that can only be true if God puts them both on opposing ends of the scale to determine where Justice lies.

PS to Jonathan_S: In allowing that a 90 year old (without prolong) could have been the Champion and so forced to fight Burdette, as well as agreeing that life is unfair and part of the test, he has abandoned the argument that Grayson's faith required everything to be fair.
Now the argument is that true faith can overcome the obstacles imposed by unfairness; but that requires him to explain how Burdette, who has an abundance of faith, could lose to a 90 year Champion.

PPS: The Grayson method of choosing the Champion completely ignores any ability with a sword.
Top
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:53 am

TFLYTSNBN
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1541
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:58 am

Honor's rather erratic empathic advantage as well as physical advantages are undeniable. However; her physical abilities were greatly diminished by her exhaustion and physical injuriries. Honor prevailed despite of her disadvantages because Bourdette's willingness to murder children to advance his political goals were just as abhorant to God as human sacrifice. God intervened by granting an exhausted and gravely wounded Honor Harrington the strength to wield her sword and utilized her limited empathic abilities as his instrument to tell her when her unrighteous opponent would attack.

Is it truly so difficult for people to understand that perhaps God did not want Grayson to remain an isolated, backward theocracy rather than become one of the most preeminent military and economic star nations in the overwhelmingly secular galaxy as testimony to his glory?
Top

Return to Honorverse