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Honorverse ramblings and musings

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:34 am

cthia
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Flag in Exile Ch. 29 wrote:Honor waited, poised and still, centered physically and mentally, her eyes watching every part of his body without focusing on any. She felt his frustration, but it was as distant and unimportant as the ache of her broken ribs. She simply waited—and then, suddenly, she moved.

She never knew, then or later, what William Fitzclarence's "crease" was. She simply knew she'd recognized it. That something deep inside her saw the moment he committed himself, the instant his arms tightened to bring his blade slashing down.

The instant in which he was entirely focused on the attack, and not on defense.
Bold mine.

Every time I come across this, I cannot understand why Nimitz' or even Honor's own ability didn't come into play in recognizing the crease, which should be a screaming emotion.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:15 am

Weird Harold
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cthia wrote:
Flag in Exile Ch. 29 wrote:She never knew, then or later, what William Fitzclarence's "crease" was. She simply knew she'd recognized it. That something deep inside her saw the moment he committed himself, the instant his arms tightened to bring his blade slashing down.
Bold WH's.

Every time I come across this, I cannot understand why Nimitz' or even Honor's own ability didn't come into play in recognizing the crease, which should be a screaming emotion.


You highlighted the wrong text.

At this point in the Honorverse, she hasn't isolated and identified her active connection with Nimitz nor developed to an identifiable level her own empathy. Arguably, the portion I highlighted instead says that it was her own, innate, empathy the gave her the edge rather than recognizing his "crease." Given what she knew at that time and the explanations of her Sensei, she explains the moment in those terms regardless of the actual reasons.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:39 am

cthia
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cthia wrote:
Flag in Exile Ch. 29 wrote:She never knew, then or later, what William Fitzclarence's "crease" was. She simply knew she'd recognized it. That something deep inside her saw the moment he committed himself, the instant his arms tightened to bring his blade slashing down.
Bold WH's.

Every time I come across this, I cannot understand why Nimitz' or even Honor's own ability didn't come into play in recognizing the crease, which should be a screaming emotion.


Weird Harold wrote:You highlighted the wrong text.

At this point in the Honorverse, she hasn't isolated and identified her active connection with Nimitz nor developed to an identifiable level her own empathy. Arguably, the portion I highlighted instead says that it was her own, innate, empathy the gave her the edge rather than recognizing his "crease." Given what she knew at that time and the explanations of her Sensei, she explains the moment in those terms regardless of the actual reasons.

I just reread FiE. I'm pretty sure the one way link has been established because Honor mentions that she has tried to discourage Nimitz from sharing the emotion of others but that it was unfair to him because it's like breathing to Nimitz. Other POVs are offered as well, like her armsman saying he suspected the ability for her to be able to do what she does and now understands why she keeps it a secret though he didn't before.

I'll look for the passages.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:53 am

cthia
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Are treecats affected by nausea during downward translations as well?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Vince   » Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:08 pm

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cthia wrote:Are treecats affected by nausea during downward translations as well?

It has never been mentioned in text either one way or the other.
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History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:56 am

cthia
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cthia wrote:
Flag in Exile Ch. 29 wrote:She never knew, then or later, what William Fitzclarence's "crease" was. She simply knew she'd recognized it. That something deep inside her saw the moment he committed himself, the instant his arms tightened to bring his blade slashing down.
Bold WH's.

Every time I come across this, I cannot understand why Nimitz' or even Honor's own ability didn't come into play in recognizing the crease, which should be a screaming emotion.
Weird Harold wrote:You highlighted the wrong text.

At this point in the Honorverse, she hasn't isolated and identified her active connection with Nimitz nor developed to an identifiable level her own empathy. Arguably, the portion I highlighted instead says that it was her own, innate, empathy the gave her the edge rather than recognizing his "crease." Given what she knew at that time and the explanations of her Sensei, she explains the moment in those terms regardless of the actual reasons.

cthia wrote:I just reread FiE. I'm pretty sure the one way link has been established because Honor mentions that she has tried to discourage Nimitz from sharing the emotion of others but that it was unfair to him because it's like breathing to Nimitz. Other POVs are offered as well, like her armsman saying he suspected the ability for her to be able to do what she does and now understands why she keeps it a secret though he didn't before.

I'll look for the passages.


As promised. . .

Honor's ability definitely existed before the duel and Nimitz was present. Nimitz' alarm definitely should have naturally spiked, warning Honor of Burdette's intent to strike - the "crease."

Textev from Ch. 2 of Flag in Exile. . .

It was Honor's turn to sigh, and she leaned back with a small, fond grimace. Her empathic link to Nimitz was far stronger than the normal human-'cat bond. So far as she knew, no other human had ever been able to sense a 'cat's emotions, much less sense those of others through the 'cat, and she'd tried, at first, to discourage Nimitz from sharing the feelings of those about her with her. But it was like trying to remember not to breathe, and, she admitted, she'd clung to Nimitz with such near desperation over the last T-year that it had become almost impossible not to know what people around her felt. She told herself—or tried to—that it was little different from being exceptionally good at reading expressions, but either way, she'd finally accepted that Nimitz wasn't going to let her not use her newfound abilities.

Like now. Nimitz liked LaFollet, and he saw no reason not to convey the major's emotions to her—or to hide his own approval of him. Both of them knew how devoted to her LaFollet was, and she was perfectly well aware the true reason he wanted to crack down on demonstrators was only peripherally connected to security risks. Oh, there was a trace of that, but his real motives were far simpler: outrage and a determination to protect her from fresh wounds.

Her smile faded, and her long fingers toyed with her stein. She was the first female steadholder


And later on the same page. . .

The major looked mulish, but he closed his mouth, unable to dispute her argument. It was just that it was so cursed unfair. He wasn't supposed to know the Steadholder's treecat let her sense the emotions of others. He hadn't quite figured out why she was so intent on hiding that from everyone, though he had more than sufficient reasons of his own to agree with her. Even on Grayson, whose people had reason to know better, humans persistently underestimated Nimitz's intelligence. They thought of him as some exceptionally clever pet, not as a person, and his ability to warn the Steadholder of hostile intent had already proved a life-saving secret weapon.

As far as Andrew LaFollet was concerned, that was ample reason to keep it secret, yet no one could serve her as closely as he did without realizing the truth. But he'd also realized she could sense only emotions . . . and that she thought no one knew how badly she'd been hurt. That none of her armsmen—or even MacGuiness—knew about the nights she wept with quiet desperation.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:00 pm

cthia
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Can we talk? Can we talk? If only Joan Rivers were still alive.

Burdette didn't stand a chance.

Honor was frustrated, exhausted, angry, vengeful, hungry and in pain. With superfast Sphinxian reflexes.

Plus she cheated! 2 agin 1.


OUCH!. . .

Hey! Don't stone the messenger! It wasn't really cheating. After all, they were sword fighting and Honor simply used her very sharp edge. LOL

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Kael Posavatz   » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:22 pm

Kael Posavatz
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Posts: 104
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cthia wrote:Can we talk? Can we talk? If only Joan Rivers were still alive.

Burdette didn't stand a chance.

Honor was frustrated, exhausted, angry, vengeful, hungry and in pain. With superfast Sphinxian reflexes.

Plus she cheated! 2 agin 1.


OUCH!. . .

Hey! Don't stone the messenger! It wasn't really cheating. After all, they were sword fighting and Honor simply used her very sharp edge. LOL


It was Burdette's idea to throw down with her and it wasn't like it was a secret that she'd been practicing with a sword and had professional experience at winning life-or-death struggles.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:28 pm

cthia
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Posts: 11274
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

cthia wrote:Can we talk? Can we talk? If only Joan Rivers were still alive.

Burdette didn't stand a chance.

Honor was frustrated, exhausted, angry, vengeful, hungry and in pain. With superfast Sphinxian reflexes.

Plus she cheated! 2 agin 1.


OUCH!. . .

Hey! Don't stone the messenger! It wasn't really cheating. After all, they were sword fighting and Honor simply used her very sharp edge. LOL


Kael Posavatz wrote:It was Burdette's idea to throw down with her and it wasn't like it was a secret that she'd been practicing with a sword and had professional experience at winning life-or-death struggles.


But this was a secret.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Kael Posavatz   » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:15 pm

Kael Posavatz
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 104
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cthia wrote:
But this was a secret.


You say that as though it was necessary for her victory.

I think she would have won regardless. Recall her instructor commented early on that Honor was studying it as a tool for killing, accepting minor blows to enable what would be fatal attacks for her opponent.

Also, when Burdette calls for trial by combat, he is invoking an ancient privaledge that has gone unused for centuries. To him and everyone else on Grayson it is essentially a sport. Honor approaches the sword as a shiny new way to kill people. (That may be a little blunt, and be something of a disservice, but I had to sneak one pun in. Sorry).
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