Honorverse ramblings and musings

Weird Harold wrote:

PeterZ wrote:Replacing the leadership with anyone or any group that does not have the support of the populace will be begging for an endless insurgency. This includes any occupying force.

That is sort of what Manticore faces at Masada, and it is slowly but surely working as the old guard die off. Neither Masada nor Darius are going to be converted overnight, but removing the core leadership and incarcerating them elsewhere leaves the occupiers in orbit the only source of info and re-education.

The GA is probably going to use that position of advantage to bring Darius into the greater human universe, just as the MAlign has used it to convince the population of Darius they are defending themselves against the world.

The big difference between any other parallel and the Darius is the MAlign. They have been so secretive that most of their own members don't know who the leadership teams are. Any occupation or even replacement leadership will have to contend with that shadow government.

Just look at how the Ballroom has infiltrated Mesa even though they have been hunted for centuries. Granted the MAlign didn't want to totally defeat the Ballroom, but the Mesan government sure tried hard. Now imagine the MAlign operating as the Ballroom on an occupied Darius. That will be a seriously tough nut to crack unless the 50% of the population who are genetic slaves withdraw their support. Even so that leaves 50% of the population as star lines.

Not simple or quick that's for sure. Very likely it'll turn into something like the Middle East with a population divided into an us versus them mentality. I suspect they will all want to leave eventually. Yet allowing that may mean giving the MAlign a new lease on life.

A Rising Thunder wrote:Then again, the admiral thought, we’ve never been this close to actually pulling it off, and none of our calculations considered the possibility of an outright shooting war between the League and someone like the Manties. Throw in”mystery raiders” with invisible starships, and I suppose even Alexander of Macedon might experience the odd moment of trepidation. And Oravil, bless his Machiavellian little heart, never believed he was a demigod to begin with!
Snip
That wasn’t going to happen to the people Oravil Barregos was responsible for. On oh so many levels, it wasn’t going to happen. And for him to prevent it, he and Rozsak had to build the strength to stand against the hurricane.

The last line of the first paragraph. They are both star lines, but may not be MAlign. How many levels are there if he is NOT a star line? If he is ignorant of the MAlign and their intentions AND goals. Those levels could mean he is either fighting for the MAlign or against them.

Hi PeterZ,

There is no evidence to suggest that either Barragos or Rozak are starlines. I know that the speculation is fun, but this sort of thing can be carried to the point where anyone who demonstrates intelligence and effective initiative becomes "starline", and who knows? Maybe its true... But absent some concrete way of demonstrating the point, we are not really any more knowledgeable than we were before.

Don

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PeterZ wrote:Just look at how the Ballroom has infiltrated Mesa even though they have been hunted for centuries. Granted the MAlign didn't want to totally defeat the Ballroom, but the Mesan government sure tried hard.

Uh, what?

You had a couple of idiots who didn’t know that the weapons they stole had embedded tracking devices.

n7axw wrote:Hi PeterZ,

There is no evidence to suggest that either Barragos or Rozak are starlines. I know that the speculation is fun, but this sort of thing can be carried to the point where anyone who demonstrates intelligence and effective initiative becomes "starline", and who knows? Maybe its true... But absent some concrete way of demonstrating the point, we are not really any more knowledgeable than we were before.

Don

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As musings go, evidence that the writer hinted at two characters being star lines is reasonable. It's not quite a direct as sticking a tongue at her reflection, but it'll do to start.

I always wondered about Cynthia Lecter. She is a noted fidgeter and has annoyed Mike more then once with her tapping. That is one of the "defects" although thats a strong word, I guess "Tics" is a better choice of the Tarantino line. Robert Tarantino has his worry rock he contrantly fidgets with. When Albert took it away he started tapping which annoyed the crap out of him. Almost like Cynthia and her spoon.

That being said Cynthia is VERY good at her job and has been incredibly helpful to Mike against the MA. She very well could be part of the line that has "Gone Native" without realizing it.

Or she could just need to fiddle with her spoon and its purely a coincidence.

PeterZ wrote:

n7axw wrote:Hi PeterZ,

There is no evidence to suggest that either Barragos or Rozak are starlines. I know that the speculation is fun, but this sort of thing can be carried to the point where anyone who demonstrates intelligence and effective initiative becomes "starline", and who knows? Maybe its true... But absent some concrete way of demonstrating the point, we are not really any more knowledgeable than we were before.

Don

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As musings go, evidence that the writer hinted at two characters being star lines is reasonable. It's not quite a direct as sticking a tongue at her reflection, but it'll do to start.

Maybe you should start a new topic? Lost Star Line Conspiracy Theories.

I'd like to think some of the good guys are really good guys.

Hi Weird Harold,

We don't know that much about what the SKM tried to do to end the Masadan patriarchy, before turning Masada over to Grayson back in WoH, but it apparently included offering prolong and modern medicine etc almost 20 years ago.

For those that did accept such benefits possibly as 'blessings', keeping them safe would involve building especially brand new secure enclaves on islands or in the middle of large empty deserts, including the arctic etc, that prevent nukes, nano-parasites, plagues etc being smuggled in by suicide wackos or deluded ignorant innocents.

Given how great Masada is, simply outliving the rest of the population while growing increasingly richer isn't going change many Masadan minds, who may simply breed even faster, which could be a very winning strategy for them, as it has been for the Palestinians.

The Masadans, because they eschewed modern technology [even if it was already a thousand years out of date] were and are rather short lived [coming from Grayson after 500 years etc], and most of the then hierarchy have obviously nearly all died off, but there are plenty where they came from, despite all the efforts to find them [according to Brigham Mercedes], but given the vitriol which the Masadans were and still are raised on for several centuries, it's going to be decades if not centuries before its safe for any non-Masadans to freely visit the planet.

Darius may be ten times worse.

I'm sure RFC has already written scenes [besides many notes] regarding what happens to Darius, but the sun will go nova before he reveals them to us ahead of his book publishing dates.

But while there might be snippets ahead of those, it will still be many years before we find out.

So we must accept our joy when and where we can when he obliges us with more treats.

L

Weird Harold wrote:

PeterZ wrote:Replacing the leadership with anyone or any group that does not have the support of the populace will be begging for an endless insurgency. This includes any occupying force.

That is sort of what Manticore faces at Masada, and it is slowly but surely working as the old guard die off. Neither Masada nor Darius are going to be converted overnight, but removing the core leadership and incarcerating them elsewhere leaves the occupiers in orbit the only source of info and re-education.

The GA is probably going to use that position of advantage to bring Darius into the greater human universe, just as the MAlign has used it to convince the population of Darius they are defending themselves against the world.

n7axw wrote:Hi PeterZ,

There is no evidence to suggest that either Barragos or Rozak are starlines. I know that the speculation is fun, but this sort of thing can be carried to the point where anyone who demonstrates intelligence and effective initiative becomes "starline", and who knows? Maybe its true... But absent some concrete way of demonstrating the point, we are not really any more knowledgeable than we were before.

Don-

PeterZ wrote:As musings go, evidence that the writer hinted at two characters being star lines is reasonable. It's not quite a direct as sticking a tongue at her reflection, but it'll do to start.

pappilon wrote:Maybe you should start a new topic? Lost Star Line Conspiracy Theories.

I'd like to think some of the good guys are really good guys.

What makes you think they are not good guys even if I am right and they are star line descendants or even MAlign members? RFC has been trying to make the MAlign more sympathetic in many ways. Why not show some of their star lines' offspring who have not completely embraced the MAlign? There are many directions this can take. We already know he planted a star line descendent in the group we already think of as the good guys. So how much of this musing is conspiracy theory?
Again, I don't think this is beyond the pale.

PeterZ wrote:

n7axw wrote:Hi PeterZ,

There is no evidence to suggest that either Barragos or Rozak are starlines. I know that the speculation is fun, but this sort of thing can be carried to the point where anyone who demonstrates intelligence and effective initiative becomes "starline", and who knows? Maybe its true... But absent some concrete way of demonstrating the point, we are not really any more knowledgeable than we were before.

Don-

PeterZ wrote:As musings go, evidence that the writer hinted at two characters being star lines is reasonable. It's not quite a direct as sticking a tongue at her reflection, but it'll do to start.

pappilon wrote:Maybe you should start a new topic? Lost Star Line Conspiracy Theories.

I'd like to think some of the good guys are really good guys.

Peter Z wrote:

What makes you think they are not good guys even if I am right and they are star line descendants or even MAlign members? RFC has been trying to make the MAlign more sympathetic in many ways. Why not show some of their star lines' offspring who have not completely embraced the MAlign? There are many directions this can take. We already know he planted a star line descendent in the group we already think of as the good guys. So how much of this musing is conspiracy theory?
Again, I don't think this is beyond the pale.

In a way, we are wandering. If MAlign planted star line people without their knowing it, they are no longer MAlign. What do you do? Go up to someone and tell them that their genes have been upgraded and will you please betray everyone and everything you love?

We know about O'Hanrahan, of course. And there may be others. But we have had quite a few point of view characters and none have shown any inclination towards helping MAlign. The ones on Haven are so random, considering the revolution(s) that they were probably not planted.

The Manticorans we've dealt with have essentially been very anti-MAlign. Unless RFC really wants to do something wild, I can't see anything else really matter. Although it might be interesting if Berry were somehow a part of a forgotten line since we are told she is so remarkably sane.