Honorverse ramblings and musings

Hi cythia,

Besides all the other evidence others have presented regarding why the genetic slaves on Darius don't have kill switches [and 10% of a billion would be 100 million killed not ten] I'll just reiterate that a genetic slave uprising or rebellion aren't going to happen because the genetic slaves are fully protected by laws that are enforced, they actually live better than most humans and [very important] have won the respect of their star-line supervisors for their skill and hard work; quite aside from the fact they believe in the MAlign, so they are building the future they fervently believe is right for the rest of the universe, 1000%.

So they have very little to quibble about, and Jeremy would find it very hard to find any kind supporters who wouldn't kill him first before contacting the authorities.

Reading SoV might answer some of your questions.

The problem of Darius is intended to be quite a different one I'm afraid.

Given how wonderful it is, how much everyone there deeply believes in the wonderful MAlign plan for humanity, what happens when it is eventually discovered?

I've been afraid ever since RFC shared those decent details with us that our favorite Honor as I've mentioned before, that HA-H would find herself having to commit a horrendous EE violation [or perhaps more accurately executing the punishment for so many many EE violations] to save the rest of civilization [remember that the industrialized Maya sector will be critical to the good guys eventual victory, because the rest has been trashed], ie destroy the whole planet and solar system population because she can't leave them alone to destroy so much of what's left of humanity again, there are too many to ship out even if exiling them were an option, they are so committed to the MAlign they don't believe anything she tells them contrary to what they want to believe etc.

She can't civilize them, and she can't leave them alone, so what's left?

The terrible decision may kill her, whatever the majority of surviving humans that agrees with her decision, simply never ever again.

I hope such a scenario turns out to only be a nightmare, and that Hamish can comfort and cuddle her, but I fear that great moral dilemma is headed for someone, perhaps Abigail or her children.

Granted a blockade might work if the survivors can afford it, blockades being rather expensive, but I doubt the survivors are going to let any such thoroughly indoctrinated MAlign planet they catch live.

Very interesting, very sad times indeed.

L

cthia wrote:For the most part, I generally agree with everyones assessment as well.

We could be underestimating how many people may have the protocols though. I always personally entertained the thought that the MAlign gave the protocols to everyone outside the Onion, however delaying activation of protocols until needed. I wonder if the time-limited nature could, would, be attributed to, or become a factor only after activation, if the notion of administering - yet delaying activation is possible. The MAlign has been shown to be very paranoid, or cautious. Or both. Making me to believe that they wouldn't take any chances with information being discussed by anyone, outside the Onion. Accidentally losing too many people would seem to be less of a disaster than losing too much information. In light of the easy way there is to grow the people and having centuries at best and decades at least, to do so. If needed.

Also, since Simoes, there could be sweeping (no pun intended) changes made. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

As far as my thoughts on Darius, I only thought the protocols would be given to everyone on planet in case there was an uprising. Since Jeremy X and a few others have shown what their tailored type of (conformance ) can deliver.

If everyone on planet has not been given the protocols on general purpose, then I'd surely like the thought of Jeremy finding his way back to Darius and riling the natives.

In case everyone hasn't made the connection, the protocols are a sure way to kill an uprising quickly, whether in or out of compliance of intended protocol safeties. The kill switch could serve double duties where the natives are in force.

Oh! And if the protocols are administered to everyone, it would make it far easier to keep track of any missing, escaped or abducted people, giving it triple duties. Affording the MA far more bang for their bucking troubles.

I find myself thinking that Zac might be key to what happens on Darius. He is already asking questions. I don't see the GA doing Eridani violations. The drama there is going to come when the Alignment is exposed for what it is and the people of Darius get opened up to the galaxy as a whole. Exactly how it all goes down, I haven't a clue. But I suspect that whatever happens, Zac will be leading the charge. In an odd way it reminds me of what is going down on Safehold once the shackles of the COGA are thrown off.

Intriguing.

Don

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lyonheart wrote:She can't civilize them, and she can't leave them alone, so what's left?

The terrible decision may kill her, whatever the majority of surviving humans that agrees with her decision, simply never ever again.

I hope such a scenario turns out to only be a nightmare, and that Hamish can comfort and cuddle her, but I fear that great moral dilemma is headed for someone, perhaps Abigail or her children.

Granted a blockade might work if the survivors can afford it, blockades being rather expensive, but I doubt the survivors are going to let any such thoroughly indoctrinated MAlign planet they catch live.

The problem of Darius is virtually the same as the problem of Masada. It is going to take a generations long blockade to make a significant dent in the brain-washed masses.

Hi Weird Harold,

Very possible, kind of like what happened in RFC's Crusade, IIRC.

Such a blockade ought to prevent fresh space infrastructure being built to build new starships with whatever tech the MAlign recently came up with, but unlike Frank Herbert's son launching starships from underground caverns, I don't see RFC enabling Darius to do anything similar.

By the way, may the Forum Monitors feel free to eliminate my redundant post above as I think something hiccuped at the time.

Best wishes to all,

L

Weird Harold wrote:

lyonheart wrote:She can't civilize them, and she can't leave them alone, so what's left?

The terrible decision may kill her, whatever the majority of surviving humans that agrees with her decision, simply never ever again.

I hope such a scenario turns out to only be a nightmare, and that Hamish can comfort and cuddle her, but I fear that great moral dilemma is headed for someone, perhaps Abigail or her children.

Granted a blockade might work if the survivors can afford it, blockades being rather expensive, but I doubt the survivors are going to let any such thoroughly indoctrinated MAlign planet they catch live.

The problem of Darius is virtually the same as the problem of Masada. It is going to take a generations long blockade to make a significant dent in the brain-washed masses.

Speaking of Hiccups... I hope someone does delete two of the three posts I have above. The system won't let me clean up my own mess...

Don

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lyonheart wrote:Hi Weird Harold,

Very possible, kind of like what happened in RFC's Crusade, IIRC.

Such a blockade ought to prevent fresh space infrastructure being built to build new starships with whatever tech the MAlign recently came up with, but unlike Frank Herbert's launching starships from underground caverns, I don't see RFC enabling Darius to do anything similar.

snip

Best wishes to all,

L

This will be very like the North Korea situation; a rogue nation that wants to develop weapons that can shatter countries. In the Honorverse we have a rogue nation that wants to compel societies to adopt its values.

Just as implementing a quarantine for North Korea doesn't change its fundamental goals, will establishing a blockade change the MAlign? One suspects that they will not change. So, as Lyonheart has suggested, will the GA need to destroy Darius or will they simply invest the resources necessary to blockade the system until the cows come home?

Are there alternatives?

PeterZ wrote:Are there alternatives?

Regime Change -- as they did with Masada. It still requires a blockade and intervention battalions in orbit, and will for a long time. But Masada has a growing number of young who don't have the radical "Faithful" attitude.

Darius won't take quite as long as Masada even with Prolong as the population is better educated and less fanatical. More analogous to post-WWII Japan than modern North Korea.

Weird Harold wrote:

PeterZ wrote:Are there alternatives?

Regime Change -- as they did with Masada. It still requires a blockade and intervention battalions in orbit, and will for a long time. But Masada has a growing number of young who don't have the radical "Faithful" attitude.

Darius won't take quite as long as Masada even with Prolong as the population is better educated and less fanatical. More analogous to post-WWII Japan than modern North Korea.

I can't help but think that the citizens of Darius are rather more like the citizens of bolthole. They know only what they have been taught from birth. Crazy but much different from the Masadansmin that they have no optional/competing universe" view.

pappilon wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:
Regime Change -- as they did with Masada. It still requires a blockade and intervention battalions in orbit, and will for a long time. But Masada has a growing number of young who don't have the radical "Faithful" attitude.

Darius won't take quite as long as Masada even with Prolong as the population is better educated and less fanatical. More analogous to post-WWII Japan than modern North Korea.

I can't help but think that the citizens of Darius are rather more like the citizens of bolthole. They know only what they have been taught from birth. Crazy but much different from the Masadansmin that they have no optional/competing universe" view.

Simple regime change won't cut it. Unless they change the mindset first, the only folks they recognize as legitimate are those folks with the proper lineage. That lineage almost certainly means MAlign to the eyebrows. Can you trust someone so practiced at managing entire governments from the shadows?

Replacing the leadership with anyone or any group that does not have the support of the populace will be begging for an endless insurgency. This includes any occupying force.

The only thing that may work is gathering groups of genetic slaves and have them visit other systems and return to share their experiences. That will also take q long time, but may work. Of course, the "slaves" may well be Alpha lines and they would certainly be building a new network.

PeterZ wrote:Replacing the leadership with anyone or any group that does not have the support of the populace will be begging for an endless insurgency. This includes any occupying force.

That is sort of what Manticore faces at Masada, and it is slowly but surely working as the old guard die off. Neither Masada nor Darius are going to be converted overnight, but removing the core leadership and incarcerating them elsewhere leaves the occupiers in orbit the only source of info and re-education.

The GA is probably going to use that position of advantage to bring Darius into the greater human universe, just as the MAlign has used it to convince the population of Darius they are defending themselves against the world.