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Honorverse ramblings and musings

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:34 pm

cthia
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Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Kael Posavatz wrote:
cthia wrote:
But this was a secret.


You say that as though it was necessary for her victory.

I think she would have won regardless. Recall her instructor commented early on that Honor was studying it as a tool for killing, accepting minor blows to enable what would be fatal attacks for her opponent.

Also, when Burdette calls for trial by combat, he is invoking an ancient privaledge that has gone unused for centuries. To him and everyone else on Grayson it is essentially a sport. Honor approaches the sword as a shiny new way to kill people. (That may be a little blunt, and be something of a disservice, but I had to sneak one pun in. Sorry).


Not necessary for. Cause of.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Vince   » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:56 pm

Vince
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Posts: 1574
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:43 pm

Kael Posavatz wrote:
cthia wrote:
But this was a secret.


You say that as though it was necessary for her victory.

I think she would have won regardless. Recall her instructor commented early on that Honor was studying it as a tool for killing, accepting minor blows to enable what would be fatal attacks for her opponent.

Also, when Burdette calls for trial by combat, he is invoking an ancient privaledge that has gone unused for centuries. To him and everyone else on Grayson it is essentially a sport. Honor approaches the sword as a shiny new way to kill people. (That may be a little blunt, and be something of a disservice, but I had to sneak one pun in. Sorry).

Definitely not blunt, since Honor was used to being out on the sharp end.
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History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Kael Posavatz   » Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:41 pm

Kael Posavatz
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Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:51 am

cthia wrote:
Kael Posavatz wrote:
You say that as though it was necessary for her victory.

I think she would have won regardless. Recall her instructor commented early on that Honor was studying it as a tool for killing, accepting minor blows to enable what would be fatal attacks for her opponent.

Also, when Burdette calls for trial by combat, he is invoking an ancient privaledge that has gone unused for centuries. To him and everyone else on Grayson it is essentially a sport. Honor approaches the sword as a shiny new way to kill people. (That may be a little blunt, and be something of a disservice, but I had to sneak one pun in. Sorry).


Not necessary for. Cause of.


I'll concede it was a contributing factor, and even go so far as it enabled the efficient decapitation of Burdette's ambitions. But to name it the cause of her victory is too cavalier a dismissal of other contributing factors for me.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:53 pm

cthia
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Guilty as charged. With explanation Your Honor. . .

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Kael Posavatz   » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:17 pm

Kael Posavatz
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:51 am

:shakes head:

And I felt guilty for leaving that 'decapitation' pun in there.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:03 pm

cthia
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Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Your Honor, I wish this filed as Exhibit A . . .

. . .

"Let it be done court."



Here's the thing . . .


THING.
she'd tried, at first, to discourage Nimitz from sharing the feelings of those about her with her. But it was like trying to remember not to breathe, and, she admitted, she'd clung to Nimitz with such near desperation over the last T-year that it had become almost impossible not to know what people around her felt. She told herself—or tried to—that it was little different from being exceptionally good at reading expressions, but either way, she'd finally accepted that Nimitz wasn't going to let her not use her newfound abilities.


****** *


Maybe Honor did it on her own. I don't dispute she had the ability. I don't dispute that without Nimitz the results would have been the same. I'll bet on it!

But that's not the point. The point may not even be whether or not it was a fair fight. Though I can't imagine Burdette's family NOT screaming bloody murder if Honor's secret ever got out. In a match where there is a "war of wills" and a search for the "crease." I think Honor's ability should have been divulged to Burdette. Much as she was honest with the IAN about her secret weapon hidden in her finger.

Putting all of that aside, it's time you all sample the flavor of logic that goes on inside of my head. I've chosen this opportunity to give you all a play by play of my personal reasoning as textev came at me blind . . .

No way do I think Honor needed Nimitz. The point is Nimitz isn't going to have it any other way. This isn't a game to Nimitz who knows exactly what's at stake. His person's - and his own - life is riding on the edge of Honor's sword. Burdette would have carved two pigeons with one blade. No way would it have made sense to Nimitz to let Honor die, and then berate himself, if he had lived, because he didn't share that one thing with her when it was a matter of life and death that she know.

Being Honor's number one armsman, Nimitz sure as hell detected Burdette's crease for himself! Whether he shared it with Honor might be debatable, but remember. It's like breathing.

Unless you think Nimitz held his breath.

That's possible. We Two-legs quite often hold our own breath or outright forget to breathe in those moments. But, well, Nimitz hated water. So he wasn't exactly in the practice of holding his breath. Unless you think predators are in the habit of getting close enough to choke him . . .

And with those odds, Burdette had a right to know.

One thing is for certain? . . .

Honor's abilities should definitely remain a secret now


Mueller and Co. already think of her as a deceitful whore-n-harlot.

"jus' sayin"

.
Last edited by cthia on Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:22 am, edited 3 times in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Vince   » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:01 am

Vince
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1574
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:43 pm

cthia wrote:Your Honor, I wish this filed as Exhibit A . . .

. . .

"Let it be done court."



Here's the thing . . .


THING.
she'd tried, at first, to discourage Nimitz from sharing the feelings of those about her with her. But it was like trying to remember not to breathe, and, she admitted, she'd clung to Nimitz with such near desperation over the last T-year that it had become almost impossible not to know what people around her felt. She told herself—or tried to—that it was little different from being exceptionally good at reading expressions, but either way, she'd finally accepted that Nimitz wasn't going to let her not use her newfound abilities.


****** *


Maybe Honor did it on her own. I don't dispute she had the ability. I don't dispute that without Nimitz the results would have been the same. I'll bet on it!

But that's not the point. The point may not even be whether or not it was a fair fight. Though I can't imagine Burdette's family NOT screaming bloody murder if Honor's secret ever got out. In a match where there is a "war of wills" and a search for the "crease." I think Honor's ability should have been divulged to Burdette. Much as she was honest with the IAN about her secret weapon hidden in her finger.

Putting all of that aside, it's time you all sample the flavor of logic that goes on inside of my head. I've chosen this opportunity to give you all a play by play of my personal reasoning as textev came at me blind . . .

No way do I think Honor needed Nimitz. The point is Nimitz isn't going to have it any other way. This isn't a game to Nimitz who knows exactly what's at stake. His person's - and his own life is riding on the edge of Honor's sword too. Burdette would have carved two pigeons with one blade. No way would it have made sense to Nimitz to let Honor die, and then berate himself, if he had lived, because he didn't share that one thing with her when it was a matter of life and death that she know.

Being Honor's number one armsman, Nimitz sure as hell detected Burdette's crease for himself! Whether he shared it with Honor might be debatable, but remember. It's like breathing.

Unless you think Nimitz held his breath.

That's possible. We Two-legs quite often hold our own breath or outright forget to breathe in those moments. But, well, Nimitz hated water. So he wasn't exactly in the practice of holding his breath. Unless you think predators are in the habit of getting close enough to choke him . . .

And with those odds, Burdette had a right to know.

One thing is for certain? . . .

Honor's abilities should definitely remain a secret now


Mueller and Co. already think of her as a deceitful whore-n-harlot.

"jus' sayin"

I think Burdette forfeited any right to know when he acknowledged his guilt to the entire planet:
Flag in Exile, Chapter 29 wrote:"Wait!"
He lunged to his feet, and his bellow shook the Chamber. He saw Mayhew twitch at his sudden shout, but the bitch didn't even blink, and somehow that gave him fresh strength. There was a way, he told himself. There was still a way to destroy her and, in her destruction, prove he was God's champion.
For a moment he thought the oncoming armsmen would ignore his cry, but then the officer at their head looked at the Protector, and Mayhew raised a hand. He said nothing, simply stood waiting with contempt plain on his face, and Burdette descended to the Conclave floor. He brushed through the armsmen with cold disdain and threw the bitch a single hate-filled glare, then turned to face the Keys of Grayson.
"My Lords," he cried, "I do not dispute the facts this harlot claims, nor do I regret any of my acts! I say only that I neither desired nor ordered Reverend Hanks' death, and that no man can prove against me, for I never even knew he would be present. But yes—yes, My Lords!—I did each and every other thing this foreign-born whore claims, and I would do them again—do them a thousand times again!—before I let an infidel fornicator and this traitor who calls himself Protector pollute and poison a world sacred to God!"
He saw the other steadholders' shock as he admitted his guilt. No, as he proclaimed it and flung it in the bitch's face! And he understood their confusion, for they didn't know what he intended. A rush of power, the assurance that God was with him yet, filled him, and he wheeled to glare at Benjamin Mayhew.
"I reject your right to condemn me to death in order to silence God's voice of opposition to your corrupt abuse of power! As is my ancient right before God, the law, and this Conclave, I challenge your decree! Let your Champion stand forth and prove the true will of God sword-to-sword, in the ancient way of our fathers, and may God preserve the righteous!"
Italics are the author's, boldface is my emphasis.

Burdette wasn't, by his own admission, righteous. God answered his prayer, preserving the righteous and striking down the unrighteous. The idea of God forgiving sin is directly dependent on the sinner acknowledging their sins, and repenting those sins. Burdette was defiant, not repentant, and would commit his sins again.
-------------------------------------------------------------
History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:11 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Did Tester truly cut down the wicked? Or did Honor's secret?

Oh, I don't doubt that Tester would have been on Honor's side. So there was no reason not to come clean and let Tester sort out the wicked.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:54 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Kael Posavatz wrote:
cthia wrote:
But this was a secret.


You say that as though it was necessary for her victory.

I think she would have won regardless. Recall her instructor commented early on that Honor was studying it as a tool for killing, accepting minor blows to enable what would be fatal attacks for her opponent.

Also, when Burdette calls for trial by combat, he is invoking an ancient privaledge that has gone unused for centuries. To him and everyone else on Grayson it is essentially a sport. Honor approaches the sword as a shiny new way to kill people. (That may be a little blunt, and be something of a disservice, but I had to sneak one pun in. Sorry).

Vince wrote:Definitely not blunt, since Honor was used to being out on the sharp end.


Kudos :lol: Vince. She is a cut above the rest.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Kael Posavatz   » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:31 am

Kael Posavatz
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:51 am

cthia wrote:Oh, I don't doubt that Tester would have been on Honor's side. So there was no reason not to come clean and let Tester sort out the wicked.


To which I feel compelled to refer to:
Comte de Bussy-Rabutin wrote: God is usually on the side of the big squadrons against the small.


Honor is notably taller than most Graysons, which gives her the reach advantage.

And:
Voltaire wrote:God is on the side not of the heavy battalions but of the best shots.


While Honor might not have been the most experienced combatant, I believe that there is sufficient textev to argue that she is the superior shot (cut, whatever)


(Trying desperately not to make a pun about how it's a good thing Honor has never taken up golf)
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