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Honorverse ramblings and musings

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by drinksmuchcoffee   » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:36 pm

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In the nearly two dozen books in the series and lord knows how many anthologies, did they ever mention spare skin suits? I don't recall ever hearing mention of suchlike.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by pnakasone   » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:55 pm

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drinksmuchcoffee wrote:In the nearly two dozen books in the series and lord knows how many anthologies, did they ever mention spare skin suits? I don't recall ever hearing mention of suchlike.


The problem is that spare suits not being specifically mentioned in text dos not prove they did not exist.Of course there is no proof either way on this issue. Until we get word from god we will each believe what makes the most sense to us.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by kzt   » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:10 pm

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pnakasone wrote:The problem is that spare suits not being specifically mentioned in text dos not prove they did not exist.Of course there is no proof either way on this issue. Until we get word from god we will each believe what makes the most sense to us.

It was kind of explicitly stated that people don't have spare skinsuits, you get issued one custom made one. The odds are that if your skinsuit it is damaged enough to need replacing so are you.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by MaxxQ   » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:18 pm

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I've alwyas taken it that skin suits are stored in your locker until needed. At that point, if there's red alert, the other shift members of your station that AREN'T there should get to their skinnies and get them on and then get to their duty station, at which point, you are relieved to go get your own suit. I would assume that if battle is imminent, then you would get instructions by comm to go elsewhere, as there is already someone at your station.

OTOH, it's usually a couple hours minimum from detection of an incoming force until the battle is begun (textev - Honor gives her crews time to grab something to eat before battle is engaged, even though they are on alert, with incoming enemy ships). This means you could crawl back to your cabin/berthing compartment, shimmy into your skinnie, and meander on back to your duty station, and still have time for a quick bite and a nap before battle.

"Somebody wake up Hicks!" - SSgt Apone, Aliens :mrgreen:
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:38 pm

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kzt wrote:
pnakasone wrote:The problem is that spare suits not being specifically mentioned in text dos not prove they did not exist.Of course there is no proof either way on this issue. Until we get word from god we will each believe what makes the most sense to us.

It was kind of explicitly stated that people don't have spare skinsuits, you get issued one custom made one. The odds are that if your skinsuit it is damaged enough to need replacing so are you.

I would tend to agree. Munroburton reminded me of the human element a few posts ago. The human element does not discriminate.

Half of my engineering responsibilities, the Environmental half of Environmental and Geotechnical, is part of a local Hazmat team. We wear full suits. And you really do not want a spare suit. Your suit is your lifeline. And you are expected and suggested, rather pointedly, to become quite familiar with it as if it were one of your limbs. Two or more suits would divide your attention. You won't bond with your suit as you should if you are dividing your time between suits.

For instance, you want to know that the flutter valve is making the sound that means it needs replacing. Or that your air valve is getting worn. Or that your faceplate should be refitted because you have gained weight in your face. It is all about a tight seal from a proper fit. You should be able to service your suit in the dark. Literally. And that means being intimately familiar with all of its idiosyncrasies.

You only get one shot with a space suit, there is no emergency chute if that one fails. So you probably shouldn't spread your attention between suits.

Image

http://astoria.or.us/Assets/dept_5/pm/images/hazmat%202.jpg

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Brigade XO   » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:56 pm

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I suspect that ships normally carry things other than skin-suite for the crew. Like what crew use to do routine work outside the ship or in the holds that are not pressurized.

Do you really want to have to put on your skin-suit to get into an EVA spacesuit to do maintenance or damage repair? Perhaps something a bit tougher with manuvering thrusters and extended enviormental supplies plus tools (general and added to for specific thing your are planning to do) along with attachment points or pouches to carry stuff.

If Honor didn't take her skin-suit with her when visiting another ship, it should be possible to give her a "standard" issue EVA suit with the correct plumbing in something close to her size. This doesn't begin to cover the alternative things that could be used such as Marine powered armor. That the "ESN" didn't have enough skin suites isn't too hard to understand as there were way too many people being stuffed into those ships, even if they had taken ALL of the skin-suites from the PRH navy personel and shipped the PRH crew (along with all those troops) down to the surface in their own utility uniforms.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:31 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:I suspect that ships normally carry things other than skin-suite for the crew. Like what crew use to do routine work outside the ship or in the holds that are not pressurized.

Do you really want to have to put on your skin-suit to get into an EVA spacesuit to do maintenance or damage repair? Perhaps something a bit tougher with manuvering thrusters and extended enviormental supplies plus tools (general and added to for specific thing your are planning to do) along with attachment points or pouches to carry stuff.

If Honor didn't take her skin-suit with her when visiting another ship, it should be possible to give her a "standard" issue EVA suit with the correct plumbing in something close to her size. This doesn't begin to cover the alternative things that could be used such as Marine powered armor. That the "ESN" didn't have enough skin suites isn't too hard to understand as there were way too many people being stuffed into those ships, even if they had taken ALL of the skin-suites from the PRH navy personel and shipped the PRH crew (along with all those troops) down to the surface in their own utility uniforms.

The original issue with Honor not having a good suit to wear was before Prince Adrian was captured. The text was pretty clear that warships normally carry only individual's fitted skinsuits or rescue suits (where you can't do anything).

From the EVA bits during Wayfarer's battle repairs during HAE it seems that EVA suits are just the normal skinsuit plus a SUT pack. Here's a relivant quote
Honor Among Enemies wrote:She centered the HUD reticle on Pod Twenty-Four's beacon, locking her vector into the automated guidance systems of the outsized Sustained Use Thruster pack strapped over her skinsuit. The SUT packs were designed for extended EVA use, with much greater endurance and power than the standard skinsuit thrusters, and Ginger loved her rare opportunities to play with them.


So, no, warships do not appear to have separate EVA suits. And, while I can't remember specific text-ev, I'd guess that power armor is designed to be worn over a skinsuit rather than to replace it...
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Fox2!   » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:41 am

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Jonathan_S wrote:
So, no, warships do not appear to have separate EVA suits. And, while I can't remember specific text-ev, I'd guess that power armor is designed to be worn over a skinsuit rather than to replace it...


The Marine armored skin suit is identical to the Navy version on the skin side, but provides a medium level of armored protection on the outside. According to HoS, the Marine skin suit is not as comfortable as the Navy version (Light armor is provided by unpowered armor, presumably worn over the normal working uniform).

Neither HoS nor my memory of any discussion of battle armor states that battle armor is worn over a skin suit.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:33 am

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Fox2! wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:
So, no, warships do not appear to have separate EVA suits. And, while I can't remember specific text-ev, I'd guess that power armor is designed to be worn over a skinsuit rather than to replace it...


The Marine armored skin suit is identical to the Navy version on the skin side, but provides a medium level of armored protection on the outside. According to HoS, the Marine skin suit is not as comfortable as the Navy version (Light armor is provided by unpowered armor, presumably worn over the normal working uniform).

Neither HoS nor my memory of any discussion of battle armor states that battle armor is worn over a skin suit.
For the heck of it I went and checked Jayne's and both the Mantie and Havenite powe armor are described as bodysuits; and the Mantie one further specifies that the basic glove is identical to that of a skinsuit (allowing operation of any computers, equipment, etc. while an armored gauntlet can be pulled over that for combat.
Also the glossary of AAC and WOH defined powered armor "Battle armor combining a vac suit with protection proof against most man-portable weapons, with very powerful exoskeletal "muscles," sophisticated on-board sensors, and maneuvering thrusters for use in vacuum."
So it seems you are right; it's not worn over a skinsuit.

But that implies you have to strip to enter power armor - and then it's in effect a skinsuit with heavy powered armor permanently molded onto it. That seems like a weird design choice to me. On the one hand it does ensure that if an Marine reached the 'morgue', no mater what they're wearing, they can don their power armor. (No worries that their skinsuit is in another part of the ship, station, or base). And certainly parts of a skinsuit, like the thrusters or the Marine version's integral armor are unnecessary inside powered armor and a waste of space.

On the other hand that means if the morgue is in vacuum or has a toxic atmosphere from fire or battle damage that a Marine can't don their power armor because they have to strip out of their skinsuit, slide into a new custom fitted bodysuit - which takes a while. And you also get the fun of redoing the plumbing connections; oh joy.

In contrast if, as I'd originally assumed, you wrapped power armor around a skinsuit you could just slip in and connect the umbilical to access additional power and environmental reserves of the power armor. You'd probably also need less custom fitting of the power armor as it would be the skinsuit that needed to be super tailored to the individual body; while power armor should be able to auto adjust to at least a limited range of skinsuit sizes. That also provides a bit more flexibility in is issuing armor to whoever is available in an emergency.

Finally if you were in a separate skinsuit you'd have the ability to bail out if your armor should its power be depleted or it somehow be rendered immobile; you'd still have a minimally armored environmental suit on. Whereas the description in Jayne's hints that you be naked if you crawled out of power armor (I'd assume not even underwear because, like a skinsuit, you'd need plumbing connections)..
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Weird Harold   » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:26 am

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Jonathan_S wrote:On the other hand that means if the morgue is in vacuum or has a toxic atmosphere from fire or battle damage that a Marine can't don their power armor because they have to strip out of their skinsuit, slide into a new custom fitted bodysuit - which takes a while. And you also get the fun of redoing the plumbing connections; oh joy.


It seems to me that battle armor is assigned and custom fitted to a particular marine. So it would make sense that Marines assigned to a heavy weapons platoon would have the body-glove for their armor fitted as their normal skin-suit. That would ameliorate most of your objections; at least the major point about having to change suits before donning the Battle armor.

If that is indeed the way thing are set up, the body-glove for battle armor would be roughly comparable to Navy skin suits as armor, but lack -- or have removable -- thrusters and other systems not needed inside the battle-armor.

Since not every situation would require full battle-armor, heavy weapons platoon would have to have enough armor and capability to fight in just skin-suits. In any event, those Marines would be in the "Morgue" as their GQ station. They would have their skin-suits/body-glove stored there and have a choice of which to don according to the situation that prompted "General Quarters."
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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