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Honorverse ramblings and musings

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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:45 pm

cthia
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George J. Smith wrote:Why do the treecats sign to Nimitz when they meet?

IIRC it is his transmitter that has gone not his receiver.

George, I simply assumed that it was because they were practicing to sign. Practice makes perfect. But you know what they say about assumptions.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Greentea   » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:30 pm

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George J. Smith wrote:Why do the treecats sign to Nimitz when they meet?

IIRC it is his transmitter that has gone not his receiver.


I think the treecats are showing that they know sign, so Nimitz can talk to them and they will understand. It is a new language and I am sure it is spreading quickly via the mindsingers, but it appears not all treecats know it yet.

It is like speaking broken French to a shopkeeper in France. You are trying to meet them in their language, not use English.
Cup of tea? Yes, please.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by munroburton   » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:20 pm

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cthia wrote:Is this an inconsistency or does it infer that Tankersley was a two-timer? Or did the long legs of Harrington lure Paul away from Cindy? Or are we to just assume that their relationship had simply run its course through a rocky debris field?
Cindy was the assistant to Vice Admiral of the Red Sir Craig Warner, assigned to the space station Hephaestus. She started to see Commander Paul Tankersley of HMS Warlock when the vessel was in refit at the shipyard. Admiral Warner did not think anything of it, because he thought that Cindy had good sense. (HH1)


I doubt it was much more than post-work drinks and unwinding. There wasn't any trace of baggage or deception suggested via either Honor or Nimitz's psi sense.

cthia wrote:There's an HMS Invictus and an HMS Invincible. Invictus means unconquerable or undefeated. We all know what invincible means but once these ships do suffer a defeat then what of the inappropriate name? Which shows why a ship's nomenclature designated after an intangible—and perhaps unrealistic ideal—instead of after a personage is a problem. Justa rambling.


I always thought ships named in such a manner were just begging for misfortune. Indeed, three of the real life Royal Navy's six Invincibles foundered due to bad weather and a fourth was lost in combat with 1,020 of 1,026 crew due to a magazine explosion rather early into the engagement.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:24 pm

cthia
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Greentea wrote:
George J. Smith wrote:Why do the treecats sign to Nimitz when they meet?

IIRC it is his transmitter that has gone not his receiver.


I think the treecats are showing that they know sign, so Nimitz can talk to them and they will understand. It is a new language and I am sure it is spreading quickly via the mindsingers, but it appears not all treecats know it yet.

It is like speaking broken French to a shopkeeper in France. You are trying to meet them in their language, not use English.
My bold to call attention.

Greentea, I actually had to read this twice to get it. Though I'll only admit to a brain poot. Brilliant hypothesis and I'd go ahead and go all in on the bet that you are correct.

What's worse, a brain fart or a brain poot? Farts are the really big ones. But a poot is rather smelly. :?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:50 pm

cthia
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cthia wrote:Is this an inconsistency or does it infer that Tankersley was a two-timer? Or did the long legs of Harrington lure Paul away from Cindy? Or are we to just assume that their relationship had simply run its course through a rocky debris field?
Cindy was the assistant to Vice Admiral of the Red Sir Craig Warner, assigned to the space station Hephaestus. She started to see Commander Paul Tankersley of HMS Warlock when the vessel was in refit at the shipyard. Admiral Warner did not think anything of it, because he thought that Cindy had good sense. (HH1)
munroburton wrote:I doubt it was much more than post-work drinks and unwinding. There wasn't any trace of baggage or deception suggested via either Honor or Nimitz's psi sense.

My apology, I should have posted the wiki informant from Tankersley's blurb.
wiki informant wrote:In 1900 PD, he held the rank of Commander and was assigned as executive officer of the heavy cruiser HMS Warlock. When Warlock was in refit at HMSS Hephaestus, he did most of the work for Captain Pavel Young. During the time, he started dating Vice Admiral Craig Warner's assistant, Cindy. (HH1, HH3, OBS) When the Warlock was undergoing repairs, he would purposely slow the work in order for the ship to miss the events occurring in Basilisk.

Following the events at Basilisk, Tankersley caught the eye of Admiral Warner. He was promoted to Captain (junior grade) and transferred to the Bureau of Ships. Several years later, he was assigned as a member of the repair team at Hancock Station. He oversaw the repairs to HMS Nike, and used the private on-board gym. There, he ran into Honor Harrington and became Harrington's sparring partner. He and Harrington began a relationship which soon blossomed into love. (HH3)
Which clearly states they were dating. And implies that he ran into Harrington pretty much on the heels of it.

Also Warner wouldn't have been slightly concerned over just drinks and idle chitchat. It could have just been casual sex though. On your point that Nimitz might've picked up on any deception, yes. As far as Honor though, no way. Honor was head-over-heels hit way over the right field wall out of the park in love with Tankersley. When you fall that hard for someone, you can't see that they are a monster even if they are dripping green goo all over you and even when all of your friends are screaming "Monster! Monster!" Said person can sell you the huge army of Costa Rica during that time of floating on a cloud of rubbish.

"Waitaminute! Costa Rica has no army!"

"Too late, all sales are final!"

cthia wrote:There's an HMS Invictus and an HMS Invincible. Invictus means unconquerable or undefeated. We all know what invincible means but once these ships do suffer a defeat then what of the inappropriate name? Which shows why a ship's nomenclature designated after an intangible—and perhaps unrealistic ideal—instead of after a personage is a problem. Justa rambling.
munroburton wrote:I always thought ships named in such a manner were just begging for misfortune. Indeed, three of the real life Royal Navy's six Invincibles foundered due to bad weather and a fourth was lost in combat with 1,020 of 1,026 crew due to a magazine explosion rather early into the engagement.

:o

Seems you'd at least learn to reload the gun with a different cartridge after a couple of misfires. I guess bigger made them more Invincible. Which only proves the old adage "The bigger they are, the harder they fall."

Or in this case "The bigger they are, the bigger the explosion."

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by George J. Smith   » Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:04 am

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Greentea wrote:
George J. Smith wrote:Why do the treecats sign to Nimitz when they meet?

IIRC it is his transmitter that has gone not his receiver.


I think the treecats are showing that they know sign, so Nimitz can talk to them and they will understand. It is a new language and I am sure it is spreading quickly via the mindsingers, but it appears not all treecats know it yet.

It is like speaking broken French to a shopkeeper in France. You are trying to meet them in their language, not use English.


That is a good suggestion, however couldn't tell him that telepathically?
.
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A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:08 pm

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cthia wrote:My apology, I should have posted the wiki informant from Tankersley's blurb.
wiki informant wrote:In 1900 PD, he held the rank of Commander and was assigned as executive officer of the heavy cruiser HMS Warlock. When Warlock was in refit at HMSS Hephaestus, he did most of the work for Captain Pavel Young. During the time, he started dating Vice Admiral Craig Warner's assistant, Cindy. (HH1, HH3, OBS) When the Warlock was undergoing repairs, he would purposely slow the work in order for the ship to miss the events occurring in Basilisk.
I think the wiki author might be taking a single sentence from the text and giving it more importance that is really has.

On Basilisk Station: Ch 22 wrote:Tankersley's a fairly decent sort. I don't think Young's attempt to shaft Harrington sits very well with him, and you can't be exec to a man like Young without getting to know exactly how useless he really is. Under the circumstances, I sort of doubt Young's explained his real motives to him, either, so Tankersley can play the uninformed but earnest exec to the hilt, if he wants to. I imagine he'll screen Young, all right, but probably only to leave a message with his service—and not one with any special priority." Warner tapped lightly on his desk for a moment, then nodded to himself. "Won't hurt to make sure, though. My aide's not just good looking; she's a very bright young woman, and she's been spending some off-duty time with Tankersley. That's one reason I figure he must be all right; Cindy wouldn't waste her time on him if he wasn't. Would it be all right if I have her mention to him that I'd appreciate his keeping his next progress report to Young a little vague?"
Underline mine
That's the one and only mention of Cindy, Admiral Warner's aide.
Spending some off duty time could be anything from hanging out in a group that Paul was in, or just getting some post work drinks with him, up to actually dating; we just have no way to know based off this single mention.

Personally I'd guess (and I admit this is based on just as little information as the wiki author had) that beginning to be "spending some off-duty time" together is probably quite new; no earlier than Warlock's arrival for servicing a few weeks prior. That's because I think it unlikely that Paul would have run into her before that, as Warlock wouldn't have been spending much time in Hephaestus before being dispatched to Basilisk.
And given that this all was almost 4 years before Honor met Paul again at Hancock... (Battle of Hancock was spring 1905, while Warlock would have been in for maintenance in late summer 1901). Doesn't strike me as a relationship with the kind of length or emotional depth that might prompt speculation about whether Tankersley was a two-timer.


I did a quick search and there isn't any Cindy mentioned again until book 8, when White-Haven has a comm officer of that name; no idea if she's the same woman.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:10 am

cthia
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cthia wrote:My apology, I should have posted the wiki informant from Tankersley's blurb.
wiki informant wrote:In 1900 PD, he held the rank of Commander and was assigned as executive officer of the heavy cruiser HMS Warlock. When Warlock was in refit at HMSS Hephaestus, he did most of the work for Captain Pavel Young. During the time, he started dating Vice Admiral Craig Warner's assistant, Cindy. (HH1, HH3, OBS) When the Warlock was undergoing repairs, he would purposely slow the work in order for the ship to miss the events occurring in Basilisk.
Jonathan_S wrote:I think the wiki author might be taking a single sentence from the text and giving it more importance that is really has.

On Basilisk Station: Ch 22 wrote:Tankersley's a fairly decent sort. I don't think Young's attempt to shaft Harrington sits very well with him, and you can't be exec to a man like Young without getting to know exactly how useless he really is. Under the circumstances, I sort of doubt Young's explained his real motives to him, either, so Tankersley can play the uninformed but earnest exec to the hilt, if he wants to. I imagine he'll screen Young, all right, but probably only to leave a message with his service—and not one with any special priority." Warner tapped lightly on his desk for a moment, then nodded to himself. "Won't hurt to make sure, though. My aide's not just good looking; she's a very bright young woman, and she's been spending some off-duty time with Tankersley. That's one reason I figure he must be all right; Cindy wouldn't waste her time on him if he wasn't. Would it be all right if I have her mention to him that I'd appreciate his keeping his next progress report to Young a little vague?"
Jonathan_S wrote:Underline mine
That's the one and only mention of Cindy, Admiral Warner's aide.
Spending some off duty time could be anything from hanging out in a group that Paul was in, or just getting some post work drinks with him, up to actually dating; we just have no way to know based off this single mention.

Personally I'd guess (and I admit this is based on just as little information as the wiki author had) that beginning to be "spending some off-duty time" together is probably quite new; no earlier than Warlock's arrival for servicing a few weeks prior. That's because I think it unlikely that Paul would have run into her before that, as Warlock wouldn't have been spending much time in Hephaestus before being dispatched to Basilisk.
And given that this all was almost 4 years before Honor met Paul again at Hancock... (Battle of Hancock was spring 1905, while Warlock would have been in for maintenance in late summer 1901). Doesn't strike me as a relationship with the kind of length or emotional depth that might prompt speculation about whether Tankersley was a two-timer.


I did a quick search and there isn't any Cindy mentioned again until book 8, when White-Haven has a comm officer of that name; no idea if she's the same woman.

In light of your post, I'd tend to mostly agree, mostly because one simply cannot pass up the opportunity of having casual sex in space. I would imagine that "RMN space" is a rather vast but sexually limited wasteland completely devoid of a target rich environment. A place where even if the desire of the prey is present, the desire of the regs are not. Gotta score when you can score.

I didn't really think Paul was a two-timer. Just that the drunken wiki informant's information was a bit... peculiar. Thanks for the thorough research.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:34 pm

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Perusing MoH looking for something in particular and rehappened upon this particular tidbit that slightly puzzles me, slightly...

Mission of Honor Ch. 35 wrote:-snip-

Spencer Hawke, on the other hand, never even hesitated. He simply followed his Steadholder across her flag bridge and into the briefing room, then arranged himself against the bulkhead behind her.

Honor felt him there, at her back. Technically, she supposed, she should have instructed him to wait outside the briefing room door, given the security code Brantley had said the message carried. That thought had crossed her mind more than once over the years, in similar situations, yet it had never even occurred to her to actually do it with Andrew LaFollet, and she knew she would never do it with Hawke, either. He was a Grayson armsman, and he would guard his steadholder's secrets with the same iron fidelity with which he guarded her life.

She seated herself, set Nimitz on the conference table to one side of her terminal, and brought up the display.

"Put it through, Harper," she told the com officer when his image appeared.

"Yes, Ma'am," he replied, and disappeared, to be replaced almost instantly by a brown-haired, brown-eyed man of average build in the uniform of a captain of the list. She recognized him immediately.

"Good afternoon, Jackson," she said.

"Good afternoon, Your Grace," Captain Jackson Fargo replied quietly. "It's good to see you home again, although I wish it were under other circumstances."

"I know." She smiled briefly at the man who headed Hamish Alexander-Harrington's Admiralty House staff. "It's good to see you again, too, with the same proviso."

"Thank you, Your Grace." Fargo gave her a small half-bow, then cleared his throat. "The First Lord asked me to screen you. He's actually on Sphinx at this moment. Well, more accurately, he's aboard a shuttle which happens to be headed in your direction at this moment. His ETA is about twelve minutes, and he asked me to tell you he would very much like to join you aboard your flagship when he arrives, if that would be convenient."

A tiny flicker of joy flashed like distant lightning across the horizon of the emptiness within her, and she felt herself smiling ever so slightly.

"I believe, Captain," Lady Dame Honor Alexander-Harrington told him, "that I'll be able to find the time somehow."
This could have been a point of contention when first trying to incorporate the notion of Grayson armsmen into the RMN. Especially with Janacek at the helm. Did Grayson armsmen ever formally obtain the proper security clearance?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by WeirdlyWired   » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:44 am

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cthia wrote:Perusing MoH looking for something in particular and rehappened upon this particular tidbit that slightly puzzles me, slightly...

Mission of Honor Ch. 35 wrote:-snip-

Spencer Hawke, on the other hand, never even hesitated. He simply followed his Steadholder across her flag bridge and into the briefing room, then arranged himself against the bulkhead behind her.

Honor felt him there, at her back. Technically, she supposed, she should have instructed him to wait outside the briefing room door, given the security code Brantley had said the message carried. That thought had crossed her mind more than once over the years, in similar situations, yet it had never even occurred to her to actually do it with Andrew LaFollet, and she knew she would never do it with Hawke, either. He was a Grayson armsman, and he would guard his steadholder's secrets with the same iron fidelity with which he guarded her life.

She seated herself, set Nimitz on the conference table to one side of her terminal, and brought up the display.

"Put it through, Harper," she told the com officer when his image appeared.

"Yes, Ma'am," he replied, and disappeared, to be replaced almost instantly by a brown-haired, brown-eyed man of average build in the uniform of a captain of the list. She recognized him immediately.

"Good afternoon, Jackson," she said.

"Good afternoon, Your Grace," Captain Jackson Fargo replied quietly. "It's good to see you home again, although I wish it were under other circumstances."

"I know." She smiled briefly at the man who headed Hamish Alexander-Harrington's Admiralty House staff. "It's good to see you again, too, with the same proviso."

"Thank you, Your Grace." Fargo gave her a small half-bow, then cleared his throat. "The First Lord asked me to screen you. He's actually on Sphinx at this moment. Well, more accurately, he's aboard a shuttle which happens to be headed in your direction at this moment. His ETA is about twelve minutes, and he asked me to tell you he would very much like to join you aboard your flagship when he arrives, if that would be convenient."

A tiny flicker of joy flashed like distant lightning across the horizon of the emptiness within her, and she felt herself smiling ever so slightly.

"I believe, Captain," Lady Dame Honor Alexander-Harrington told him, "that I'll be able to find the time somehow."
This could have been a point of contention when first trying to incorporate the notion of Grayson armsmen into the RMN. Especially with Janacek at the helm. Did Grayson armsmen ever formally obtain the proper security clearance?


IIRC Elizabeth herself, Herself granted diplomatic immunity. Seadholder Harrington being a Head of state of an allied Star system.
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