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Honorverse ramblings and musings

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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by quite possibly a cat   » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:16 pm

quite possibly a cat
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ldwechsler wrote:Are you part of a group working towards making major genetic changes to the human genome?
O'Hanrahan "I'm funding genetic counseling and treatments for poor families in the Verge actually. Quite a lot of parents use the chance to give their children genetic modifications to help them live longer, healthier lives. I expect that it will result in major changes to the genome if it goes on long enough. But I have a question, was part of the reason you asked me that because I'm a genie?"

Of course, if Manticore has done the obvious thing and screen for artificial genetic alterations the answer will be yes. Now you can paint Manticore as racists!


ldwechsler wrote:If you have Anton there, it might be pointed as "Have you been working with the Detweiler's organization?
Pretty sure the fact that the Detweiler's were still around was supposed to be a major secret. Malign infiltrators wouldn't know that. They'd be able to truthfully answer "No." Or depending on the circumstance they'd be able to call emergency services and have the dangerous and crazy person taken away to a hospital.

cthia wrote:Watching the boob tube, I've learned that there are several methods that criminals use to actually beat lie detectors. One is by applying pain to the senses (biting the tongue) when the baseline questions of truth are asked, then biting the tongue again during each question in which you will lie.
Lie detectors are about as real as palm reading or astrology.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:22 am

cthia
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CmdrAthenaAprilist wrote:
cthia wrote:EWSFLASH!!!!!!!!


Right now I'm picturing naked sheep...

:lol:

Now Cmndr, when the doctor suggested you count sheep to fall asleep, I don't think he had in mind for you to undress them. You'll never get to sleep that way. And you'll never get to the sheep. LOL

Now I'm having trouble clothing them. I'm seeing sheep with high-heels and hand bags along with their slip showing. For goodness sakes sheep, adjust your slip!


@ldwechsler,
We do seem to agree on the notion of there being a battery of interrogative questions that should be on the ready anytime such opportunity may present itself anywhere in the galaxy, certainly where treecats may dare or care to tread?

The Joubert Inquisition!

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Last edited by cthia on Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:46 am

cthia
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cthia wrote:She knows enough! Hell, she knows there's a secret cabal. If you seriously think that Audrey O'Hanrahan wouldn't trip Clean Killer's mouse trap...

Stop! Put down Stilthy weed. She's too big a-hunk-o-cheese...

My money would be on O'Hanrahan getting her wig unceremoniously split.

Clean Killer isn't looking for specifics. Clean Killer is looking for complicity.

Clean Killer isn't looking to interrogate anyone.

Clean Killer is looking to provide a live demonstration of the definition of a treecat's enemy.

<You didn't quite understand the definition of trecat enemies> Clean Killer signs to Harahap. <Clearer, they are either alive or O'Hanrahan>


<Best way to get them to spill their guts is to open them up>


An exchange between my niece and I...

"Why wouldn't Harahap fully understand the definition of treecat enemies? He's very bright." Asked my niece.

"It was lost in translation."

" :lol: :lol:"

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:35 am

cthia
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Nobody expects the Spanish Inquistion, everyone expects the Joubert Inquisition.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:31 am

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cthia wrote:
n7axw wrote:The point of my post is that she doesn't know detail. She was recruited early and shipped off to the Solarian League. I suspect she was educated there. She won't know about the onion or the Detweilers although she probably is aware of a cabal without having detail about it. It's called need to know and Aubrey doesn't to do her job. Her handler has probably been her only contact for many years.

Would a cat sense her loyalties? Maybe. But I suspect that her mindset would be that of an investigative reporter rather that a member of the Alignment. That is what the cats would pick up on first. And would be the truth, just not the whole story.

Don

-


You are still missing my point.

I really do not think that Clean Killer is even remotely interested in any kind of d e t a i l.

Go back and reread that video snippet again.

First off, the memory of the Yawata strike comes in the form of a song to the treecats. It is such a powerful memory song that it evokes a very devastating, heart wrenching, emotional memory. It is so debilitating to the cats that the memory singers had to sugar coat it plus isolate it from the baby kittens. Clean Killer mentions that he doesn't need the constant ditty, that most treecats can't get out of their heads, because he carries his with him just under his skin.

Really, reread that snippet again. Clean Killer is musing about exactly what he is going to do as soon as he comes within radar range of a suspect...

Clean Killer UH wrote:No, he volunteered because he hoped that some day, some way, he could come within claws reach of at least one of the evil-doers responsible for such slaughters, so many deaths. And on the day that he did...


Clean Killer is musing about exactly what he is going to do. It is clear. I imagine, as a reader, that he's thinking...

<If your intentions are to protect the evil two-legs before Clean Killer kills them, then you better catch me in the air while I'm somersaulting, because after I land there's only going to be swift retribution. The END>

Everyone seems to be caught up in the notion that Clean Killer will be caught up in HOW MUCH O'Hanrahan knows. At this point, Clean Killer is only concerned THAT O'Hanrahan knows.

O'Hanrahan's mindglow better not spike the built-in treecat lie-detector one bit!

Just the sight of a treecat may get her killed!


n7axw wrote:Why would anyone ask Audrey the questions that would create that sort of spike? All Henke would know was that Audrey was a reporter... The treecat would be able to catch lies or evil intent. If both those things are absent, then what? O'Hanrahan doesn't have to lie. She is not under suspicion. As for evil intent, if a treecat finds no malice, there is probably nothing to detect. To boot, she has a long established record for hard nosed integrity.

As for Clean Killer, it will be as interesting to see how he develops under the influence of the bond as it will Harahap. Hopefully they will both find healing.

Don

-


When People's eyes narrow. They are focusing on your destruction.
==================================================
Everywhere they are in the galaxy, bonded treecats are telling their soul mates <Ask him! Ask him!>

Vengeance. The fact that it would be one less Mesan alive. You are still looking at this thing from a human perspective. Clean Killer is looking at it from a 'Cats perspective, his perspective. And rightly so.

It may not be the right thing to do as far as the two-legs are concerned. As mimicked by Given's frantic state when she witnessed what she thought was Clean Killer's attack on Harahap...

"OMG, if he is lying we need to know about it, but we can't just let Clean Killer—"

But he is boiling something fierce under the bonnet. The bad Mesans have gone and made this thing personal to the 'cats. It is very personal to them.

Clean Killer's temperament is running doubly hot, because to him the Yawata Strike is doubly personal. He was talking on the telempath mobile phone when the line suddenly went dead after broadcasting such horrible pain and fear. Clean Killer was abruptly cut off from his Sister. I don't know if there's such a thing as survivor's guilt to the treecat species. But if there is it has to be gargantuan.

Clean Killer needs to cut, kill or gut somebody in order to help ease the pain. He needs to vent!

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquistion, everyone has learned to expect the Joubert Inquisition.

Harahap will come to understand Clean Killer's rage. They'll talk about the pain. Joubert simply has to understand it. After all, it's called a bond. They have bonded, are bonding. Clean Killer needs his human to understand the inhumanity behind his rage. There are questions that Clean Killer wants asked. It is personal to Clean Killer in a way that two-legs can't understand.


Just like there are some aspects of human nature that a treecat could never grasp. Vice versa. There are some aspects of treecat nature that two-legs could never grasp. One is that certain enemies must die. A sworn treecat enemy must die.

***

There are certain questions that a treecat wants to ask...

Joubert corners the latest suspect. Clean Killer peers intently into his mindglow with resolute concentration. And then he signs...

< :twisted: Were you present at the Yawata Strike mother fucker?! :twisted: >

.
Last edited by cthia on Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:01 am

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The first treecat who comes into contact with a Mesan like Audrey O'Hanrahan should be automatically eligible for a temporary insanity plea. You heard it here first, treecats' legal rights are formally on the horizon.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by ldwechsler   » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:30 pm

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cthia wrote:The first treecat who comes into contact with a Mesan like Audrey O'Hanrahan should be automatically eligible for a temporary insanity plea. You heard it here first, treecats' legal rights are formally on the horizon.



Doubtful. It's a cute line but treecats have dealt with killers before and even some adjusted and were able to function.

O'Hanrahan might not even be truly evil, just a true believer. She went out of her way to be critical of Mesan violence from its security people. So we know she is bent but quite possibly not a total psycho.

Questioning her, if done by some real experts (can Anton, Victor and maybe Firebrand step forward) could bring out a lot of interesting information.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by ldwechsler   » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:30 pm

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cthia wrote:The first treecat who comes into contact with a Mesan like Audrey O'Hanrahan should be automatically eligible for a temporary insanity plea. You heard it here first, treecats' legal rights are formally on the horizon.



Doubtful. It's a cute line but treecats have dealt with killers before and even some adjusted and were able to function.

O'Hanrahan might not even be truly evil, just a true believer. She went out of her way to be critical of Mesan violence from its security people. So we know she is bent but quite possibly not a total psycho.

Questioning her, if done by some real experts (can Anton, Victor and maybe Firebrand step forward) could bring out a lot of interesting information.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by n7axw   » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:31 pm

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Somehow, I don't see treecats popping off in uncontrolled rage. Yes Clean Killer in angry, but he is also intelligent enough to know he can't automaticly go bonkers and that he can be more helpful to his person by leashing his anger and channeling it into helping his person with whatever mission is at hand.

In the Honorverse, I can remember twice when a treecat "lost it." One was that clan elder in Treecat Wars in the aftermath of fireseason who engineered an attack on another clan. The other time was Nimitz on Tepes when he perceived is person vulnerable and in danger. That was the incident where he lost his mindvoice.

Not a bad record, really.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by quite possibly a cat   » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:49 pm

quite possibly a cat
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I bet O'Hanrahan a true believer, but not in the crazed fanatic sense. I suspect she got the kid-friendly version so she's a true believer in genetic uplift the way she's a true believer in heavy metal decontamination and Prolong.

In other words, denying people access to genetic uplift would be like denying them an environment free from lead and denying them Prolong. They would be less healthy, have neuro defects and lead much shorter lives.

Although I suspect trying to expose her to the truths is a bit pointless, at least until the kid Dets do something really stupid. She isn't going to believe a thing Manticore has to say without hard evidence. She wouldn't be a very good reporter if she did! Unfortunately, the hard evidence probably all points to Manticore and Haven right now. :x

Want to have wild predictions for the next book? I do:

Prediction One: Shannon Foraker is the Alpha Line RFC hinted at. It is why she knew about Treecats. Major potential for exposure right there! You can see signs in her behavior as well. Her social awkwardness is a side effect, and calmly wiping out tens of thousands of lives. Plus there aren't very many other good fits for brilliant, deadly and Alpha Line unless the Alpha Line is a lost one, which would seem a touch silly.

Prediction Two: Oravil Barregos is another infiltrator. Come on, guys strongly anti-slavery and a public enemy of Mesa. Plus he's one of the people who is aware the Solarian League will fall, and soon. Except... the Solarian League only seems to be falling because of Malign involvement.

Prediction Three: A number of Grand Alliance personnel will get confused about the fact they are at war with the Solarian League and end up protecting Solarian League world assets from the Solarian League Navy pirates. They've probably spent too much time on anti-piracy work its just reflexive. They hear "Commerce Raids" and they immediately assume its their job to protect commerce!

Prediction Four: Mandarins are gonna die. Probably at the hands of the League or ex-League people.

Prediction Five: Three and Four sort of feed into this. Manticore's bad reputation at the end of the book will be based on what Henke was (framed for) doing at Mesa, and not over breaking up the League. In fact their actions fighting the Solarian League Feds will probably be one of the major things boosting their reputation.

Prediction Six: Instead of using Carmichael effectively, the Mandarins are probably going to do something stupid with him.

Prediction Seven: Rather than try and figure a way to legally abuse Beowulf's last few months of League Membership the Mandarins will do something extremely stupid.

Prediction Eight: Henke gets repudiated. Manticore and Haven do its very best to wash their hands of Mesa. Someone like Visgoth will probably be handed the job.

Prediction Nine: The nuclear blasts will actually help unite the Mesan people against horrible invaders from the sky! This will largely avoid the slaughter like what happened on Torch.

Prediction Ten: Manticore gets hit with a bioweapon. Either a disgruntled Mesan or the Malign.

Bonus Rambling Musing One: I wonder if a world could genetically engineer their people to be healthy carriers of what is a horrifying plague for everyone else. Would be an effective defense against invasions. The key part is you make sure to warn them ahead of time, but do so in such a way that they don't believe you.

Bonus Rambling Musing Two: I wonder if anyone has gotten clued into humans with low grade psychic powers. And if they have, has anyone started to research and amplify them? Maybe Meyerdahl has a crack team of powerful psykers for system defense instead of a significant SDF? If that's the case I suppose Manticore has a lot to thank the Mandarins for! :lol:

Bonus Rambling Musing Three: It would be kind of funny if say Kingsford or one of the Mandarins just shows up in Manticore asking for Asylum. Maybe after say Sol rebels. "The Sol Government just snapped and started slaughtering the Navy and Feds! They never stopped researching nanoweaponry! We never stood a chance. Every ship was already infected! I'll tell you what I know if you promise to protect me. Please, you have to help me!"
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