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Honorverse ramblings and musings

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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:30 am

cthia
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Rajani was working for the MAlign.
O'hanrahan is working for the Malign.
Harahap was working for the MAlign.

Did I miss anyone? Btw, I didn't think that O'Hanrahan was a Malign agent, but simply anti-Manticoran. Is it a certainty that she is Malignant?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:12 am

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cthia wrote:Rajani was working for the MAlign.
O'hanrahan is working for the Malign.
Harahap was working for the MAlign.

Did I miss anyone?


Byng, Crandall, and Filareta.

The SLN types weren't actual MAlign agents, just Manpower customers and liable to blackmail. Rajani may have been bribed as well as blackmailed, but all were under the impression they were being coerced by Manpower and knew nothing about the MAlign.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:53 pm

cthia
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Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:Rajani was working for the MAlign.
O'hanrahan is working for the Malign.
Harahap was working for the MAlign.

Did I miss anyone?


Byng, Crandall, and Filareta.

The SLN types weren't actual MAlign agents, just Manpower customers and liable to blackmail. Rajani may have been bribed as well as blackmailed, but all were under the impression they were being coerced by Manpower and knew nothing about the MAlign.


I forgot about Captain Caswell Gweon of ONI, who is an actual Mesan Alignment deep cover agent.

There is also his fiancée [Erzébet Pelletier: who was a deep cover agent planted in the Solarian League by the Mesan Alignment.

She was officially engaged to Captain Caswell Gweon of the Solarian League Navy, and the two of them were involved in the "suicide" of Admiral Rajampet Rajani. (HH13)] though I don't personally recall her involvement in Rajani's suicide.

Wasn't there also someone on Manticore?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:59 pm

cthia
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Posts: 9523
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:Rajani was working for the MAlign.
O'hanrahan is working for the Malign.
Harahap was working for the MAlign.

Did I miss anyone?


Byng, Crandall, and Filareta.

The SLN types weren't actual MAlign agents, just Manpower customers and liable to blackmail. Rajani may have been bribed as well as blackmailed, but all were under the impression they were being coerced by Manpower and knew nothing about the MAlign.

I don't actually count them. Should we? They were more like unwitting flunkies, rather than bonafide agents. Although Harahap was also unwitting, he was an indirect Mesan agent.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Andy33   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:12 pm

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cthia wrote:Rajani was working for the MAlign.
O'hanrahan is working for the Malign.
Harahap was working for the MAlign.

Did I miss anyone? Btw, I didn't think that O'Hanrahan was a Malign agent, but simply anti-Manticoran. Is it a certainty that she is Malignant?


O'Hanrahan is a Mesan Alpha-line, and is an actual Alignment member rather than just a hired hand - indeed in Shadow of Victory she is sent orders by Rufus Chernevsky, who is Colin Detweiler's deputy by then.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Theemile   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:19 pm

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Andy33 wrote:
cthia wrote:Rajani was working for the MAlign.
O'hanrahan is working for the Malign.
Harahap was working for the MAlign.

Did I miss anyone? Btw, I didn't think that O'Hanrahan was a Malign agent, but simply anti-Manticoran. Is it a certainty that she is Malignant?


O'Hanrahan is a Mesan Alpha-line, and is an actual Alignment member rather than just a hired hand - indeed in Shadow of Victory she is sent orders by Rufus Chernevsky, who is Colin Detweiler's deputy by then.


She also, when given the anti-manticorian story by a financial reporter, identified mentally both she and he as Malign members playing their parts.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:57 pm

cthia
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Posts: 9523
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Andy33 wrote:
cthia wrote:Rajani was working for the MAlign.
O'hanrahan is working for the Malign.
Harahap was working for the MAlign.

Did I miss anyone? Btw, I didn't think that O'Hanrahan was a Malign agent, but simply anti-Manticoran. Is it a certainty that she is Malignant?


O'Hanrahan is a Mesan Alpha-line, and is an actual Alignment member rather than just a hired hand - indeed in Shadow of Victory she is sent orders by Rufus Chernevsky, who is Colin Detweiler's deputy by then.
Theemile wrote:She also, when given the anti-manticorian story by a financial reporter, identified mentally both she and he as Malign members playing their parts.

I really don't recall that and I'm sorry I missed it, but do forgive me, I've only had one read through.

Are their any indications, or speculations in the forum, that the Mandarins have been infiltrated by the MAlign?

Around 1920 PD, the members of the Quintet and their offices were:

Malachai Abruzzi — Permanent Senior Undersecretary of Education and Information
Innokentiy Kolokoltsov — Permanent Senior Undersecretary for Foreign Affairs
Nathan MacArtney — Permanent Senior Undersecretary of the Interior
Omosupe Quartermain — Permanent Senior Undersecretary of Commerce
Agatá Wodoslawski — Permanent Senior Undersecretary of the Treasury.

That would simply stink to pink!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Theemile   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:35 pm

Theemile
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Location: Toledo, Ohio USA

cthia wrote:I really don't recall that and I'm sorry I missed it, but do forgive me, I've only had one read through.

Are their any indications, or speculations in the forum, that the Mandarins have been infiltrated by the MAlign?

Around 1920 PD, the members of the Quintet and their offices were:

Malachai Abruzzi — Permanent Senior Undersecretary of Education and Information
Innokentiy Kolokoltsov — Permanent Senior Undersecretary for Foreign Affairs
Nathan MacArtney — Permanent Senior Undersecretary of the Interior
Omosupe Quartermain — Permanent Senior Undersecretary of Commerce
Agatá Wodoslawski — Permanent Senior Undersecretary of the Treasury.

That would simply stink to pink!



Not exactly, be there are plenty of Bureaucrats like Captain Gweon, able to effect or sway decisions of said leaders based on the analysis they choose to give or pass along. Do you think any of those leaders check the math of the 1700 page analysis of whatever? No, at best, they read the intro and conclusion section, then ask for recommendations and alternatives from their closest advisors. A little judicial phrasing in these sections go a long way towards affecting the tone of the decision making process, even if the analysis really suggests otherwise.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:53 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 9523
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Theemile wrote:
cthia wrote:I really don't recall that and I'm sorry I missed it, but do forgive me, I've only had one read through.

Are their any indications, or speculations in the forum, that the Mandarins have been infiltrated by the MAlign?

Around 1920 PD, the members of the Quintet and their offices were:

Malachai Abruzzi — Permanent Senior Undersecretary of Education and Information
Innokentiy Kolokoltsov — Permanent Senior Undersecretary for Foreign Affairs
Nathan MacArtney — Permanent Senior Undersecretary of the Interior
Omosupe Quartermain — Permanent Senior Undersecretary of Commerce
Agatá Wodoslawski — Permanent Senior Undersecretary of the Treasury.

That would simply stink to pink!



Not exactly, be there are plenty of Bureaucrats like Captain Gweon, able to effect or sway decisions of said leaders based on the analysis they choose to give or pass along. Do you think any of those leaders check the math of the 1700 page analysis of whatever? No, at best, they read the intro and conclusion section, then ask for recommendations and alternatives from their closest advisors. A little judicial phrasing in these sections go a long way towards affecting the tone of the decision making process, even if the analysis really suggests otherwise.


Thanks. I didn't think so. The following passage is why I asked. A passage whose inference I don't understand, btw, so enlightenment would be most appreciated. I think I missed something somewhere as to why Gweon thinks Beowulf is so important to the Manties...

SoV wrote:“In the meantime,” Kolokoltsov continued, “one of Admiral Kingsford’s intelligence people, a Captain Gweon, has produced a very interesting analysis of the real reason Manticore and Haven were so determined to get Beowulf into their corner. It makes interesting reading, and I’d like you all to consider it between now and tomorrow.” He smiled thinly. “If Captain Gweon’s right, then it could just be that there’s a quicker alternative to Admiral Kingsford’s commerce raiding when it comes to bloody in the Manties’ nose.”


Gweon is one of Kingsford people, so I wondered if Kingsford is "in the closet" Malignant.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Theemile   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:09 pm

Theemile
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Posts: 3050
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:50 pm
Location: Toledo, Ohio USA

cthia wrote:
Thanks. I didn't think so. The following passage is why I asked. A passage whose inference I don't understand, btw, so enlightenment would be most appreciated. I think I missed something somewhere as to why Gweon thinks Beowulf is so important to the Manties...

SoV wrote:“In the meantime,” Kolokoltsov continued, “one of Admiral Kingsford’s intelligence people, a Captain Gweon, has produced a very interesting analysis of the real reason Manticore and Haven were so determined to get Beowulf into their corner. It makes interesting reading, and I’d like you all to consider it between now and tomorrow.” He smiled thinly. “If Captain Gweon’s right, then it could just be that there’s a quicker alternative to Admiral Kingsford’s commerce raiding when it comes to bloody in the Manties’ nose.”


Gweon is one of Kingsford people, so I wondered if Kingsford is "in the closet" Malignant.


No, Just Gweon, He and his fiancé are Malign agents. Officially, Captain Gweon (soon to be Adm.) just got the promotion to head an economic analysis unit after his boss had a pool accident or something of the like. He gave Kingsford (and Kolokoltsov) an analysis that in light of the Manticore/Havenite alliance, Manticore's economic power will eclipse the SL's in 15 years or less. In addition, the report said that the capability imbalance was so much that it was impossible to expect any direct military confrontation to succeed, no matter the odds stacked in the SLN's favor. There is a point of inflection in 5 years whee the SLN may be able to overtake Mantiocre militarily if sufficient construction and R&D focus can be made, then Manticore's growing economic clout will make that impossible.

The report also states that the Manticore/Haven's biggest weakness is it's merchant marine and suggests CA/BC commerce raiding and attacking neutral 3rd parties who trade with Manticore to send a message and spread Manticore's forces thinner.

Once again, reporting the truth, but especially the truth that the Align wants the SL to know, with the given options colored that way as well.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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