SPOILER: Post CoG prognostications; ONI & SIS near Talbot

[shrug]I just think that Manticore had many higher priorities than sending agents out to hundreds of planets they didn't have any interest in. Manticore didn't even have agents on New Tuscany, for heaven's sake! You seem to think ONI has a lot more agents than I do.

Kumalo has *plenty* of LACs:
12 per squadron, 8 squadrons (106) per wing.
With their missles & graziers, a LACron or three can
defend any Talbot system against SLN warships.

Those 69 FF ships are obsolete, manpower-intensive,
about as useful as HMS Victory.
Forget them!

HTM

lyonheart wrote:
[snip - htm]
I expect the TQ Guard will soon adopt the 69 FF ships Crandall brought (16 BC's, 12 CA's, 23 CL's and 18 DD's), as better than nothing to help patrol and train since Mike is essentially gone and Kumalo has so little left;

[snip - htm]
L

Hi Howard T. Map-addict,

Given only 4-5 squadrons of LAC's per system, keeping 2-3 up all the time will be wearying.

The FF ships are far closer to current tech than BF as SotS demonstrated, you have to start somewhere, but most importantly there won't be any new RMN hyper warship construction for a couple of years, so this is another case of something is better than nothing which will be the TQ's Defense Minister Krietzmann's primary argument in the absence of Tenth Fleet.

You may have missed my frequent posts at the bar etc regarding the probability of the RTU having a total of over 100 hyper warships; Rembrandt having ~38 [20% more than Monica], San Miguel 32, Redoubt 26, Prairie 20.

Adding the other 2-3 or so TQ members with hyper warships, the total might reach 140-150; but beyond the mere numbers of adding the first 16 BC's, besides 12 CA's, 23 CL's and 18 DD's to the TQG, which will be rather reassuring after the Yawata Strike and their apparent abandonment, for whatever good reasons, by 10th Fleet.

What will be more important to the TQ public is that this is the decision of their TQ defense minister, not the SKM, and however many headaches there are, those are their ships, manned by the TQG with mixed crews as much as possible, although some RMN will be seconded to them to help train, some of whom may have retired before the new tech was fielded so the SLN was closer to what they used.

L

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:Kumalo has *plenty* of LACs:
12 per squadron, 8 squadrons (106) per wing.
With their missles & graziers, a LACron or three can
defend any Talbot system against SLN warships.

Those 69 FF ships are obsolete, manpower-intensive,
about as useful as HMS Victory.
Forget them!

HTM

lyonheart wrote:
[snip - htm]
I expect the TQ Guard will soon adopt the 69 FF ships Crandall brought (16 BC's, 12 CA's, 23 CL's and 18 DD's), as better than nothing to help patrol and train since Mike is essentially gone and Kumalo has so little left;

[snip - htm]
L

I don't think the Talbot Quadrant will have much in the way of warships manned by primarily TQ born crews for a LONG time except for LACs and perhaps some former FF/BF light units such as DDs and CA. While it is possible that the Quadrant might want to put some of the newer SLN escorts into local service, they would have to referbish and reinstall all the escape pods, and then train up the people to operate the ships. That would be, at best, a stop-gap measure for local system defense and with the low number of former SLN ships possibly available plus the advantages of RMN LACs over SLN light ships, such SLN recycling usage would really only be useful against pirates and not against any FF/BF raiding force of any size. Better than nothing but not for long.

How many of the systems withing the SEM Talbot part of the Quadrant have any existing hyper-capable warships? Those crews MIGHT make a difference if they could transition from whatever (probably DDs, CL, CA, even the odd Frigate) they have which would probably be of some Solly design or former (and ancient) SL warship to the newly captured FF/BF light units. That would be a shorter learning curve. They would be more effective -once they gained pratical experience- against SLN units of equal strength than the old stuff they had been using but still way less effective than if working with any of the RMN equipment.

In the case of RMN LACs, the training would go much faster and the local crew would initially be integrated into the LACs deployed at each planet. That would still take a bit since you are going to have to both bring the crews up to speed and then give them experience which really means having them training with existing experienced RMN (and loaned GSM crew). Going forward, and if/when one or more local fleet training facility is established in the Quadrant, you will probably find both training squadrons and local system defence forces (primarily RMN LAC and various Customs units) being heavily crewed by locally trained crews but that would typcally be rotation of people having compleated training and their initial postings.

I don't believe that RMN is going to want to create and deploy ANY RMN hyper-capable ship with an all Talbott Quadrant born crew to the Quadrant at any point. That simply does not provide any benifit to the Empire and would probably be counter-productive.

You want to spread you people from the various parts of the Empire across the entire Fleet. They are serving in the Manticorian Navy, they are part of the Star Empire of Manticore and not just a small section of it. This is providing part of the training and experience of being part of the Empire. As quickly as possible you want your people in the RMN to have no more specific attachment to any one planet (or quadrant) than the Empire than the people born on Sphinx, Gryphon and Manticore do for their planet of birth.

Brigade XO wrote:I don't think the Talbot Quadrant will have much in the way of warships manned by primarily TQ born crews for a LONG time except for LACs and perhaps some former FF/BF light units such as DDs and CA. While it is possible that the Quadrant might want to put some of the newer SLN escorts into local service, they would have to referbish and reinstall all the escape pods, and then train up the people to operate the ships. That would be, at best, a stop-gap measure for local system defense and with the low number of former SLN ships possibly available plus the advantages of RMN LACs over SLN light ships, such SLN recycling usage would really only be useful against pirates and not against any FF/BF raiding force of any size. Better than nothing but not for long.

Heck, since I suspect anything hyper-capable is going to remain RMN, I don't expect it will ever happen (except maybe by chance on something with a Roland-sized crew, but those will probably be phased out in the long run). Between the Old Star Kingdom and Silesia, the TQ isn't going to be a majority of the Star Empire's population, and if any region is going to have disparate share of RMN personnel, it's likely to be the Old Star Kingdom.

Those 69 ships are top of the line against ISLN attackers and raiders.

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:Kumalo has *plenty* of LACs:
12 per squadron, 8 squadrons (106) per wing.
With their missles & graziers, a LACron or three can
defend any Talbot system against SLN warships.

Those 69 FF ships are obsolete, manpower-intensive,
about as useful as HMS Victory.
Forget them!

HTM

lyonheart wrote:
[snip - htm]
I expect the TQ Guard will soon adopt the 69 FF ships Crandall brought (16 BC's, 12 CA's, 23 CL's and 18 DD's), as better than nothing to help patrol and train since Mike is essentially gone and Kumalo has so little left;

[snip - htm]
L

drothgery wrote:Between the Old Star Kingdom and Silesia, the TQ isn't going to be a majority of the Star Empire's population, and if any region is going to have disparate share of RMN personnel, it's likely to be the Old Star Kingdom.

Silesia isn't a member of the SEM. And at this point, TQ is about 3/4 of the population of the SEM.

phillies wrote:Those 69 ships are top of the line against ISLN attackers and raiders.

Top of the line is something of an exaggeration. Likely adequate given a significant investment of time and money is true, but given that Manticore has better tube SDs in reserve that are much better training platforms, why not use those?

phillies wrote:Those 69 ships are top of the line against ISLN attackers and raiders.

RFC has called those captured SLN ships, "worthless as warships."

The RMN is providing extra simulators to each LAC squadron deployed to a TQ System for recruiting and remedial education of recruits up to LAC crew standards. Such recruits eventually will be rotated out with the rest of the LAC crews to new assignments and spread TQ personnel throughout the RMN LAC forces, and eventually through promotions and/or cross-training, some of these personnel will migrate into other parts of the RMN.

I have not missed those posts, Lyonheart; I disagree
with them so strongly that I try to ignore them.

I believe that each TQ world will have as many warships
as DW feels it should have, for the book, or the chapter,
that he is writing at a given time. Such numbers vary as
he needs them to vary. Therefore attempts to guess them
are fruitless. I agree that it would be very nice for us
if we could predict them, but we can't.
We would do better to try to predict a Roulette Wheel;
it has fewer possibilities.

As for Krietzmann, did DW ever say that he would make
that particular decision? If not, then it is merely
wishful thinking.

Of course wishful thinking is lots of fun.
I wish that Jacek Olderham had offered lunch to the
Chalgyn people he had surrounded, instead of sending
the swordsmen in after them, but he didn't.

HTM

lyonheart wrote:Hi Howard T. Map-addict,

[snip]

You may have missed my frequent posts at the bar etc regarding the probability of the RTU having a total of over 100 hyper warships; Rembrandt having ~38 [20% more than Monica], San Miguel 32, Redoubt 26, Prairie 20.

Adding the other 2-3 or so TQ members with hyper warships, the total might reach 140-150; but beyond the mere numbers of adding the first 16 BC's, besides 12 CA's, 23 CL's and 18 DD's to the TQG, which will be rather reassuring after the Yawata Strike and their apparent abandonment, for whatever good reasons, by 10th Fleet.

What will be more important to the TQ public is that this is the decision of their TQ defense minister, not the SKM, and however many headaches there are, those are their ships, manned by the TQG with mixed crews as much as possible, although some RMN will be seconded to them to help train, some of whom may have retired before the new tech was fielded so the SLN was closer to what they used.

L

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:Kumalo has *plenty* of LACs:
12 per squadron, 8 squadrons (106) per wing.
With their missles & graziers, a LACron or three can
defend any Talbot system against SLN warships.

Those 69 FF ships are obsolete, manpower-intensive,
about as useful as HMS Victory.
Forget them!

HTM