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Artificial Intelligence

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:46 am

cthia
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Relax wrote:
cthia wrote:What if man advances to the point when he can augment the human brain with circuitry. Apparently half of the human brain is unused and half of the other half is wasted. Then half of what's remaining is deadened with alcohol and drugs. lol

What then. If over 50 % of the human brain becomes circuitry, what would we be? An Artificially Supplemented Intelligence, A.S.I.?


This was debunked ages and ages ago.

Just like all the so called scientists who said we had all this "JUNK" DNA. Well it happens that lo' and behold' as we research our genome, most of the so called "JUNK" DNA is found to have a purpose after all and we would all be dead without said "JUNK" DNA. We are finding every day more so called "JUNK DNA" that supposedly is leftovers from our Evolutionairy past, that indeed it has specific purpose after all. We are now down to a very tiny percentage of our DNA that we do not know what it does and the percentage is getting smaller and smaller every day.

Same goes for the human brain. Fact is no one really knows how it works. We have tons of "theories". Few hard facts. So, saying we "ONLY" use a portion of it is absurd.

Just as we do not know why galaxies are breaking Newtonian physics. So, stating emphatically, so and so is true on a cosmological basis is absurd.

Not true. I decided to go straight to a reputable source. And that reputable source just woke me up at midnight after I left her an email in her inbox. She's seven hours ahead in Bucuresti. After rambling on with me for about an hour, she's now talking to my wife for over an hour about my wife's sisters wedding my wife just attended. It's after 2:00 A.M. now while I prepare this post. (Andreea was a flower girl at my own wedding recently in Fuerteventura.)

According to her, a neurosurgeon, nothing has been debunked and nothing has been proven. The truth is that it just isn't known, not yet. Current studies do confirm that the human brain is never at any moment 100 % used. Never! So what percentage of it is used?

Okay, (I hear her correcting me), a very small percentage of brain activity seems to be happening at any particular moment. It is the "brain potential" slant. This has been derived from many studies -- including brain scans during many different environments and stimulations.

Andreea says that under certain laboratory conditions there is pronounced brain activity in both hemispheres, however far less than 50 % of the total brain. *SEE BELOW.

Long before my post, I had a discussion with her. What prompted me to ring her was an ecstatic email that she sent me about several symposiums she had attended culminating in an interesting stop at the Stockholm Brain Institute. Part of her excitement regards outlines of future equipment that will allow more understanding of what exactly is going on in the brain as outlined by pledges in the U.S.

"Pledges in the US, what pledges in the US?"
"Your pledges in the US a couple of years ago."
"My pledges in the US?," you oxymoron!
"Not yours you moron, your president."

Which she began to share with me what is going on in my own country which is having impacts all over the world in her field. Remember, she's a neurosurgeon, not a neuroscientist.

From President Obama's Brain Initiative which is having impacts all over the world...
While these technological innovations have contributed substantially to our expanding knowledge of the brain, significant breakthroughs in how we treat neurological and psychiatric disease will require a new generation of tools to enable researchers to record signals from brain cells in much greater numbers and at even faster speeds. This cannot currently be achieved, but great promise for developing such technologies lies at the intersections of nanoscience, imaging, engineering, informatics, and other rapidly emerging fields of science and engineering.


Which led to many discussions. The mind, rambling mind!, of a neurosurgeon is fascinating. (I wonder how much brain activity is in her head while she's talking!)

You just strap in, anchor in, hunker down and enjoy the ride. Transatlantic telephone conversations with her threaten to fry our aging communication lines! lol

*This initial thread of conversation between Andreea and I began prior to this summer when she rang me and asked if I'd send her copies of the movie "Mercury Rising" with Bruce Willis.
Shadowy elements in the NSA target a nine-year old autistic savant for death when he is able to decipher a top secret code.
She said it was a popular movie in her social circle but that she'd only seen parts of it in various places. I sent her fifteen copies that would cover all of her friends and a few extra. I hadn't seen the movie either and she explained the premise to me. Since then I've watched it of course and also many a video regarding savants that she pointed me to in English.


Old notes from one particular link corroborating many things Andreea attempted to explain to me. You ever tried chatting up a female Einstein regarding the human brain? Take with lotsa aspirin...

Link regarding these notes below.

Look for these elements, says Andreea to me some time ago before watching. (fMRI: increased blood flow. Studied with MRI:)

-savant syndrome - most of the activity of one particular savant was on the left side of the brain. Typical brain activity is much more symmetrical and pronounced. The total activity is spread amongst both hemispheres -- and at least 50 % more activity in both hemispheres. But certainly far below 50 % of an active brain. That is counter-intuitive. Certainly completely opposite from what I'd imagine. It's as if a savants brain shuts down a significant percentage of the "normally active" region and highly focuses a much smaller percentage. He uses a very specific area of the brain and doesn't use others.

-acquired savants - people who become savants from brain injuries who suddenly find new abilities that wasn't there previously.

Andreea thinks that although much of the brain seems to always be inactive, many people draw the wrong conclusions. It is obvious that the brain has the ability to rewire itself, to cope -- built-in redundancies.

It is my own conclusion that far less than fifty percent of the brain is used. But not, that only fifty percent is needed. -cthia

Andreea says that we shall see. My wife says that I'm basing that on my own half-a-brain. She's just ready for a spanking.

Savant link:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/savant-brain.html

The Brain Initiative
https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2013/04 ... human-mind

Do forgive this rushed post. My wife's now off the phone and I see a kitchen utensil in her eyes... you know, a spoon. :D

I like spoons! But first, that spanking. lol

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Artificial Intelligence
Post by The E   » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:53 am

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JohnRoth wrote:He had a point, though. The only people who want an "artificial intelligence" are researchers. Everyone else wants machines you can talk to about the job at hand and that will learn from experience. If we get an "artificial intelligence," it's most likely to be the result of two things: more and more "intelligent" tools, and the realization that these things really do unify on a deep level so that they don't have to be as domain-specific as we currently make them - at least in terms of the underlying mechanisms.


Yes, pretty much. The very last thing we want is a human-equivalent AI, because humans (as a rule) tend to not be very good at only doing what they're told.

What we want instead are systems that can take care of themselves intelligently; To use an analogy, instead of having an AI that replaces an airplanes' pilot, we want an AI that thinks it's a plane.
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Re: Artificial Intelligence
Post by Theemile   » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:24 am

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The E wrote:
JohnRoth wrote:He had a point, though. The only people who want an "artificial intelligence" are researchers. Everyone else wants machines you can talk to about the job at hand and that will learn from experience. If we get an "artificial intelligence," it's most likely to be the result of two things: more and more "intelligent" tools, and the realization that these things really do unify on a deep level so that they don't have to be as domain-specific as we currently make them - at least in terms of the underlying mechanisms.


Yes, pretty much. The very last thing we want is a human-equivalent AI, because humans (as a rule) tend to not be very good at only doing what they're told.

What we want instead are systems that can take care of themselves intelligently; To use an analogy, instead of having an AI that replaces an airplanes' pilot, we want an AI that thinks it's a plane.


So, we'd need to start with a Migratory Bird's brain and start from there?
******
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Re: Artificial Intelligence
Post by The E   » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:56 am

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Theemile wrote:So, we'd need to start with a Migratory Bird's brain and start from there?


That would be one starting point. Another would be to emulate a specific category of malfunctions in human cognition, where a person will believe that their center of self is an object external to the human body; in other words, people who believe they're common household objects.
The point is to create an intelligence that has an impaired sense of self (and thus believes itself to be the thing you want it to take care of) and then imbue it with qualities that make it useful (such as a plane that derives pleasure from keeping its passengers safe and comfortable and from being on time, that sort of thing).
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Re: Artificial Intelligence
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:36 am

cthia
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The E wrote:
JohnRoth wrote:He had a point, though. The only people who want an "artificial intelligence" are researchers. Everyone else wants machines you can talk to about the job at hand and that will learn from experience. If we get an "artificial intelligence," it's most likely to be the result of two things: more and more "intelligent" tools, and the realization that these things really do unify on a deep level so that they don't have to be as domain-specific as we currently make them - at least in terms of the underlying mechanisms.


Yes, pretty much. The very last thing we want is a human-equivalent AI, because humans (as a rule) tend to not be very good at only doing what they're told.

What we want instead are systems that can take care of themselves intelligently; To use an analogy, instead of having an AI that replaces an airplanes' pilot, we want an AI that thinks it's a plane.

Since Frankenstein was introduced to us, man has craved an A.I. Look at us now. From the laughs I've been getting from family, friends, Romans and countrymen, I think I was the last holdout of the state-of-the-art dinosaur -- the flip-phone. I just gave up my Mororola T-720! I had it for 12-years and I miss it dearly! I would still have it now if I hadn't dropped it overboard while on the ocean! It cost a pretty penny back then when miniaturization was all the rage. Now the phone industry has somehow convinced us that "smart" is in. No matter the size. So our phones are again approaching the size of the old military field units that called in airstrikes! Why? Because we are gluttons for technology and "smart". There's a family joke now where everyone was trying to talk me into a smart phone. "Hey brother your old flip phone won't do this or this or this. And I can talk to it. Hey Siri..."

But I don't want to talk to my phone. I want to talk to whoever I call and sometimes not. And your smart phone won't do this... (picture me drawing my flip phone like a six-shooter and flipping it open!) what a laugh that got from everyone. I've bought all of my nieces and nephews I-phones yet they can't understand why I don't want one. I just want a very small phone. I don't want a bulky mini television bulging out of my designer clothing! And a brother of mine found out that his expensive smart phone isn't so smart. It pocket dialed his gf while he was out cheating. lol All smart phones pocket dial it seems. My flip phone never crossed that line! lol


Humans are very addictive in nature. And lazy! There is no way I'd believe that if A.I.s were hitting the shelves, we would see them sitting in crates collecting dust. In no time at all there'd be an A.I. in every home. Businesses would have them taking your order at the local burger joints. Unemployment will skyrocket because businesses would deploy them in every area they can. Mail carriers (because the postal service is drowning), sanitation workers, security guards, bell hops, concierges, switchboard operators (oops too late, that happened long ago) etc. Heck, we'd be arguing at our best friend because his current love interest is artificial. Although he wouldn't admit that she's his gf, but his assistant. Yet you know he is always with her and hasn't had a gf in years! Latchkey kids would become silicon-key kids. Man's addictive nature would see A.I.'s intruding in every conceivable and inconceivable aspect of our lives.

And remember, there would be varying degrees of implementation. You are considering the Frankenstein implementation only. Consider true A.I. implemented smartphones. Giving a new meaning to... Iphone.


The fledgling airline industry wouldn't want true A.I.'s? Please! First one to go is a cost cutting A.I. replacement of the co-pilot. Then after commuters become more comfortable, because their fares would drop, then both pilots would be replaced. Stress-free air traffic controllers that can handle several planes at once! Further plunging ticket fare! Before long, half the elevators would be artificial girl fridays! lol

Build it and they will come. They always come because man doesn't have a mind of his own and doesn't know what he wants until someone else builds it. They're working on a car that will do the driving for us!

Some of us. I want a very very small flip-phone! A wrist-watch phone I'd spend a fortune on!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Artificial Intelligence
Post by The E   » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:09 am

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cthia wrote:The fledgling airline industry wouldn't want true A.I.'s? Please! First one to go is a cost cutting A.I. replacement of the co-pilot. Then after commuters become more comfortable, because their fares would drop, then both pilots would be replaced. Stress-free air traffic controllers that can handle several planes at once! Further plunging ticket fare! Before long, half the elevators would be artificial girl fridays! lol


No, they really don't. A "true" (or rather "human equivalent") AI is more trouble than it's worth. The industry wants intelligent tools, things that can perform actions in an intelligent way. They do not want an emulation of a human with all the baggage human beings generally bring to the table; all those demands to make them emotionally stable, capable of and willing to be doing what you want them to do are a giant business expense that seems eminently cuttable.

Never mind that emulating humans is a giant can of worms waiting to be opened in terms of ethics (is an emulated human consciousness human? Does it have rights? If so, which ones?).
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Re: Artificial Intelligence
Post by JohnRoth   » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:05 am

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The E wrote:
Theemile wrote:So, we'd need to start with a Migratory Bird's brain and start from there?


That would be one starting point. Another would be to emulate a specific category of malfunctions in human cognition, where a person will believe that their center of self is an object external to the human body; in other words, people who believe they're common household objects.
The point is to create an intelligence that has an impaired sense of self (and thus believes itself to be the thing you want it to take care of) and then imbue it with qualities that make it useful (such as a plane that derives pleasure from keeping its passengers safe and comfortable and from being on time, that sort of thing).


I'm not so sure. Starting with the idea that we can somehow create a general (that is, human-like) A.I. and then tailor it seems to be putting the cart in front of the horse.

I'm coming to the realization that an A.I. that would be truly usable for the tasks we'd like it to do would be really alien. We're the (current) end result of the evolution of a bunch of predatory apes, and have grown to be the apex predator on the planet, as well as the most social species on the planet - these two are probably related. Do we really want those characteristics in our worker A.I.'s? Predator and social dominance don't seem like things we'd want.
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Re: Artificial Intelligence
Post by Grashtel   » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:43 pm

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cthia wrote:Some of us. I want a very very small flip-phone! A wrist-watch phone I'd spend a fortune on!

There are flip phones around still if you look, might have to go online to get it rather than in a shop though. Also wrist-watch phones have been around for quite a while, they have never really taken off though, the most recent I can think of is the Galaxy Gear S and is recent enough that it shouldn't be hard to get hold of, just be careful that you are getting the one that is a full up stand alone phone rather than the similar ones that are just smartwatch accessories for an Android phone
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Re: Artificial Intelligence
Post by cthia   » Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:35 am

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I'm curious and would like to conduct a little survey, of sorts, of all who would care to participate.

What do you personally consider to be the opposite of artificial intelligence?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Artificial Intelligence
Post by JohnRoth   » Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:51 am

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cthia wrote:I'm curious and would like to conduct a little survey, of sorts, of all who would care to participate.

What do you personally consider to be the opposite of artificial intelligence?


Politics?

Seriously, that's a malformed question. "Artificial Intelligence" has two words - do you want the opposite of "artificial", the opposite of "intelligence" or both. In the latter case, I'd say "natural stupidity."
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