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The Grand Alliance Grand Attack

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The Grand Alliance Grand Attack
Post by Hutch   » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:37 pm

Hutch
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Well, Skimper likes designing ships that aren't needed, namelessfly likes showers (he needs to take a cold one), and many others have their own quirks and foibles.

For me, I like moving fleets around. :o 8-)

So, been thinking about the “Grand Offensive” that the Alliance will be launching against the Solarian League.

Because that offensive is going to happen. The League has been weakened severely and the withdrawal of Beowulf will topple a number of dominoes, but it is still a extremely powerful polity, and given time to reorganize and re-equip, it could still end up dominating the battlefield. So the Grand Alliance must make sure it does break beyond repair, and in such a way that it will not be a future danger to the Haven Sector.

A substantial number of ships will have to provide defense: I figure at least seven organized fleets (Republic of Haven Home Fleet/Planetary Defense Forces, SKM Home Fleet, Silesia Fleet, Beowulf TF. Wormhole Fleet (to defend all the captured wormholes along with those belonging to Manticore allies), Convoy TF, and Talbot Sector (10th Fleet). As more Mycroft (and the already in-place or being deployed Moriarty) systems and missile pods are emplaced, the need for many of the ships stationed at each planet will decrease and they will become available for offensive operations. Conversely, as the GA opens more markets, more freighters will need convoy defending against Sollie (or other opportunistic) raiders. So however you look at it, the attacking forces will be limited.

I see the need for three separate Fleets: Call them Attack Fleet, Raiding Fleet, and Revolutionary Fleet.

Attack Fleet will be just that—the heavy hitters designed to go for heavily defended bases and installations (Yildun for one example). Call it 80 SD(P)’s 64 CLAC’s, 40 BC’s, 80 CA’s and 64 CL’s. They can be split into task forces to do multiple jobs, but their main mission is to pull the teeth of the ISLN and any SDF’s that want to try conclusions with them, destroy the construction/repair sites that could allow for the SLN to rebuild and rearm—and if that means removing the teeth without anastetic, well…. (Commanding Officer: Tourville)

Raiding Fleet is lighter, faster, and has a much more delicate job. Its’ mission is (1) further disrupt commerce in the SL, by ‘appropriating’ cargo ships and denying trade to systems most disposed against them while (2) allowing trade and commerce (and protection) to systems that are willing to defy the SL (or formally withdraw). I see 24 BCs, 12 CLAC’s, 48 CL’s and 96 DD’s here, with the capability of dividing up into 12 individual task forces to spread maximum confusion. Oh yes, each will have a chartered passenger liner with MMM crews to take command of the ‘appropriated’ freighters….. (Commanding Officer: Truman)

Revolutionary Fleet is just as stated. Mike Henke has already designated a good portion of 10th Fleet to support revolutions out on the Verge, and there is no doubt she will be backed to the hilt by Elizabeth and Eloise. These will be the ships that ‘take out’ Frontier Fleet (or even Battle Fleet units) and support revolutions when they break out in the Protectorates (and possibly even start one or two themselves). It will need a combination of big and little guns (big for systems with a substantial FF or BF units, small for most systems). I see 16 SD(P)’s, 16 CLAC’s, 48 BC’s, 48 CA’s, 48 CL’s, and 48 DD’s). Again, it can be broken down into task forces as needed. (Commanding Officer: Greentree)

That totals about 608 warships with about 40% from Haven, 35% from Manticore, and 25% from Grayson/other), and add in 196 support ships of varying types. The Solarian League is huge (1800+ worlds and hundreds of Protectorates), but these forces can hit in so many places and do so much economic and political damage that the SL will never be able to take the initiative, never be able to regain its’ balance, and find planets deserting its’ standard in ever increasing numbers.

Because following right behind the fleets will be diplomats, ambassadors, and the MMM looking to re-establish contacts and encourage the return of trade and peace to systems that have just had their first taste of war in centuries—and probably want nothing to do with it if the terms are right.

I could be completely off on this—what else is news—but that’s how I see it unfolding.

IMHO of course. YMMV.
Last edited by Hutch on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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What? Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here! Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM! -LT. Cmdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5
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Re: The Grand Alliance Grand Attack
Post by Bill Woods   » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:57 pm

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Hutch wrote:So, been thinking about the “Grand Offensive” that the Alliance will be launching against the Solarian League.
Because that offensive is going to happen. The League has been weakened severely and the withdrawal of Beowulf will topple a number of dominoes, but it is still a extremely powerful polity, and given time to reorganize and re-equip, it could still end up dominating the battlefield. So the Grand Alliance must make sure it does break beyond repair, and in such a way that it will not be a future danger to the Haven Sector.
[snip]
I could be completely off on this—what else is news—but that’s how I see it unfolding.

IMHO of course. YMMV.

Well, here was my version of how to attack the League, from a previous post:

Going after the SLN's mobile forces and infrastructure seem obvious. I suggest sending a dozen or so raider task groups via the wormhole network to enter the League's space from several different directions, with lists of systems thought to have significant SLN detachments or shipyards. (Two exceptions: don't drive straight in from Beowulf, and don't attack Sol System.)

Go in, call on the local commander to surrender. If he refuses, punch out one ship from 30 Gm. Call on the senior surviving officer to surrender. Repeat as necessary. Order them to abandon their ships; make provision for search & rescue, and blow up the SLN's hyper-capable ships. Try to avoid the local SDF, as long as it's willing to stay out of the fight.

If there's an SLN shipyard in the system, go down, order its evacuation, and destroy it. Try very hard to minimize civilian casualties, both in space and on the planet. Don't waste time on the mothball fleets this time around; give the Sollies the chance to put some effort into re-activating them.

During and after all this, talk to anyone who will listen about 'how we all got into this mess' and 'the true course of the war thus far'. Try to leave the locals pissed off at the Sollie federal government and Navy, for their incompetence and impotence. Then sail off to raid another system, for as long as supplies last.
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Imagined conversation:
Admiral [noting yet another Manty tech surprise]:
XO, what's the budget for the ONI?
Vice Admiral: I don't recall exactly, sir. Several billion quatloos.
Admiral: ... What do you suppose they did with all that money?
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Re: The Grand Alliance Grand Attack
Post by JohnRoth   » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:11 pm

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Remember that the MAlign's plan was that the SL would disintegrate of its own accord, given a little pushing here and a little graft there. It didn't assume that it would require a massive attack from something like the GA, and in fact they made every attempt to make sure there wasn't a GA to do it.
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Re: The Grand Alliance Grand Attack
Post by Crown Loyalist   » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:59 pm

Crown Loyalist
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I'm not sure an attack is the best strategy for the Grand Alliance. More like, send out a bunch of dispatch boats with ambassadors to major Solarian planets, starting with the ones that didn't vote to censure Beowulf.

Any major attacks should be against new Solarian Navy military construction, and that shouldn't start for months, and the attacks shouldn't take place until the construction is at least half done.
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Re: The Grand Alliance Grand Attack
Post by glott   » Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:14 pm

glott
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JohnRoth wrote:Remember that the MAlign's plan was that the SL would disintegrate of its own accord, given a little pushing here and a little graft there. It didn't assume that it would require a massive attack from something like the GA, and in fact they made every attempt to make sure there wasn't a GA to do it.


While I agree with JohnRoth about the MAlign's plans regarding the League in general. I think their outline for the SL's collapse projected it taking more time. The League's confrontations with Manticore, the establishment of the GA and the resulting acceleration of the League's disintegration was definitely not part of the original plan.
Last edited by glott on Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Grand Alliance Grand Attack
Post by HB of CJ   » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:55 pm

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How do you kill a multi-headed huge monster like the Solarian League? The answer is that you CAN NOT!! At least not quickly or easily. No many how many heads you cut off, several other heads will just take over.

The Grand Alliance will need to quickly kill as many ships and people as quickly as possible. Use the teck advantage while it still exists... because it won't last long. Never under estimated your enemy. When out numbered many to one, sometimes being subtle does not work.

Take a concentrated maximum Grand Alliance fleet and go straight for Sol/three Terra. Then work your way out and back, destroying as many ships, men and military AND ECONOMIC infrastructure as you can, while you can. Do NOT give the enemry time to think or even blink.

My Sum Of All Fears is that no matter how much the Alliance may hurt the Sollies, they will NEVER be able to knock them completely out. Do not count on them just rolling over and playing dead... because they will not. They can not. The human condition. HB of CJ (old coot)
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Re: The Grand Alliance Grand Attack
Post by csilkenat   » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:02 pm

csilkenat
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Before any real conflict analysis can begin there are three questions that need to be answered. They are, in no particular order, What constitutes a successful operation?; How many ships are available for aggressive operations?; and what would the rules of engagement be?.

First question: The objective is to eliminate any grouping of planets with more warfighting capability than Grayson alone. This is what I am defining as my basis for saying the dreaded words 'mission accomplished,' your ideas may be very much different due to what you consider to be an appropriate level of destruction

Second question: I have no idea, mostly because I am not able to go through Shadow for the numbers, and even those are incomplete due not specifying light combatant numbers.

Third question: At least personally my response would be to abide by the old treaties and consider moving the enforcement role to the alliance. Allow for the evacuation of space stations and give all Sollie vessels a chance to surrender before being fired upon. While making the mission more difficult it should also prevent a large scale backlash similar to the post ACW US, post WW1 Germany, or even the current middle east. At the same time as the warfighting a Marshall Plan system or similar needs to be implemented to begin drawing liberated planets into the Manticore-Grayson-Havenite sphere of influence.
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Re: The Grand Alliance Grand Attack
Post by SYED   » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:59 am

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Wormholes have always been key for long distance travel, so the alliance will take and secure every known terminii even ones in well defended systems. That will give them alot of pull with different systems, as getting on side with the alliance means access to terminii travel and trade.
The wormholes were likely key for the league ability to influence and control the far reaches of the verge. if the league is unable to move their ships out, rebellions would be more successful. The alliance can eliminate the spread out forces easily enough. With no league assistance, many corrupt regimes could fail, especially with a bit of a push from the manties.
While mesa might be already dealt with, they can now go after every known or suspected slaving planet, shipping or trading position, that were left alone as they were unable to bring military use to. The slavery might have been a cover, but the system could be used to secretly ship or move other goods or services.
The manties know have to do long distance campaigns, so if the wormholes are shut down, the only avenue is that the league will be forced to attempt to retake the terminii. this would allow easier access to raid the league.
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Re: The Grand Alliance Grand Attack
Post by crewdude48   » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:00 am

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HB of CJ wrote:How do you kill a multi-headed huge monster like the Solarian League?


Your best bet is to get the heads to attack each other.
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Re: The Grand Alliance Grand Attack
Post by MaxxQ   » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:15 am

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crewdude48 wrote:
HB of CJ wrote:How do you kill a multi-headed huge monster like the Solarian League?


Your best bet is to get the heads to attack each other.


Even better would be to get the heads to detatch themselves from the body, then attach themselves to *your* body, or at least be non-aggressive against you.
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