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What I don't like

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What I don't like
Post by Hans   » Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:15 am

Hans
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Location: Stuttgart - Germany

Hello,

the more I read the novels in the Honorverse, the more i see/read things I do not like.
First of all - it seems that all the good guys have (mostly) English names, the bad guys have (mostly) German or East European names.
Also is the biggest population of our world right now - and this will be much more obvious in the future - the Asians, with all their different cultures are underrepresented. Ok, there is Roznaks assistant who has a Thai (I'm not quite sure) name.
And where are the Africans? Spanish names are also much less than english names, especially with the 'good' ones.
Look at the real numbers? In USA, Canada, Australia, NewZealand, Caribik and Africa together there are roundabout 250 Million with English names. That's less than 5% of the total population right now. And the number is decreasing.

I see it,I recognize it, I don't like it, but I do not really complain about things like (Old) Chicago is the capital of the (united) world. That this world has a constitution which is mostly like the US constitution (pls. no discussion about the different constitutions.
I know - it is written by an US American author, who is writing for his US American readers.

What are the things you don't like?
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Re: What I don't like
Post by Dr. Arroway   » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:01 am

Dr. Arroway
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I'm not sure how many books you've read.

The Andermani are of (mostly) German and Chinese descent.
Also (SPOILER, I guess)
they quickly become allies of the Star Kingdom.

The Wintons are of African descent or close to.

More to the point there are hundreds and hundreds of characters, but you can't expect the Author to provide total "coverage" of all the possible races, cultures and their mixes in a perfectly "balanced" way, whatever that would mean. And if he did, it would only look phony and artificial.
I have some issues with the books myself, but honestly this one is non-existent.
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Re: What I don't like
Post by Yow   » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:17 am

Yow
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Hans wrote:Hello,

the more I read the novels in the Honorverse, the more i see/read things I do not like.
First of all - it seems that all the good guys have (mostly) English names, the bad guys have (mostly) German or East European names.
Also is the biggest population of our world right now - and this will be much more obvious in the future - the Asians, with :D :D all their different cultures are underrepresented. Ok, there is Roznaks assistant who has a Thai (I'm not quite sure) name.
And where are the Africans? Spanish names are also much less than english names, especially with the 'good' ones.
Look at the real numbers? In USA, Canada, Australia, NewZealand, Caribik and Africa together there are roundabout 250 Million with English names. That's less than 5% of the total population right now. And the number is decreasing.

I see it,I recognize it, I don't like it, but I do not really complain about things like (Old) Chicago is the capital of the (united) world. That this world has a constitution which is mostly like the US constitution (pls. no discussion about the different constitutions.
I know - it is written by an US American author, who is writing for his US American readers.

What are the things you don't like?


Huh? I thought most of everyone's names were European and Asian. I don't know, maybe you're right. I personally haven't noticed a disparity but being from America, I see just about everybody's name around these here parts. Could you maybe have mistaken names as English or American? I haven't seen too many Mr. and Mrs. Smith's.

I think I am inclined to politely disagree, but Manticore was mostly settled by Westerners from Europe and America and but even then just about every name I can recall was a mix of everything. Oh and the Andermani :D my favorite mash-up. German speaking Chinese with Chinese first name and German surnames :lol:

Family names are a kinda of a hobby of mine. I like finding out where people are from. What their family history is. Oh, and how to correctly pronounce their names. Has anyone kept a genealogy count out there of the Honorverse? This has peaked my interest. I think I'll read through again and see where people came from and how the names stack up.

Cthia's father ~ "Son, do not cater to the common belief that a person has to earn respect. That is not true. You should give every person respect right from the start. What a person has to earn is your continued respect!"
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Re: What I don't like
Post by SaganamiFan   » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:36 am

SaganamiFan
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I kinda felt the same way, but it has become much better in the last few books. Especially since David started taking a closer look at the Solarian League, character names have become much more diverse.

Something I noticed are the largely absent LGBT characters, but I know how touchy Americans are on that front...
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Re: What I don't like
Post by Yow   » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:09 am

Yow
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SaganamiFan wrote:I kinda felt the same way, but it has become much better in the last few books. Especially since David started taking a closer look at the Solarian League, character names have become much more diverse.

Something I noticed are the largely absent LGBT characters, but I know how touchy Americans are on that front...


Larry's Got Boyfriend Troubles? Shenanigans. We're not touchy... Why, there's no touching at all. No touchy. ...no touchy, touch. No touch.

I am surprised though. I've served with many gay and lesbian service members during the don't ask don't tell era. We all knew who they were and they were good at their job and patriotic. I've been very proud and privileged to have served with them. So when the don't ask don't tell policy was changed, I was expecting some kinda of yippee kind of party with beer, balloons, confetti and cake with some guy jumping out of it.

:cry: no beer.

Cthia's father ~ "Son, do not cater to the common belief that a person has to earn respect. That is not true. You should give every person respect right from the start. What a person has to earn is your continued respect!"
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Re: What I don't like
Post by Daryl   » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:12 am

Daryl
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I had to Google LGBT to find out what it referred to.
Personally I think the absence is more due to an avoidance of any type of sexual activity in the story than a hetero slant. The stories with Eric Flint's input have a bit more action in that area.
Possibly due to the genre, or the US culture but it does puzzle me how these stories can describe the violent death of thousands or provide fine details of someone being shredded but baulks at any detailed description of sexual acts.
Doesn't detract from my reading enjoyment at all but the absence is noticeable when compared to non US books in any genre.
Regarding minorities or disadvantaged groups RFC has more women in commanding roles, people of African decent, and those whose genetics are not mainstream than any other author I've read. His lead character is a genetically modified, Asian female who has significant disabilities having lost an eye and a hand. Her wife is a quadriplegic.


SaganamiFan wrote:I kinda felt the same way, but it has become much better in the last few books. Especially since David started taking a closer look at the Solarian League, character names have become much more diverse.

Something I noticed are the largely absent LGBT characters, but I know how touchy Americans are on that front...
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Re: What I don't like
Post by jgnfld   » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:18 am

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Daryl wrote:... Her wife is a quadriplegic.

...


See, we do have gay marriage in the Honorverse!

Or perhaps you meant: "Co-wife". ;)
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Re: What I don't like
Post by Daryl   » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:34 am

Daryl
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That illustrates two points. Firstly no detail of what goes on between consenting adults (even married ones). Secondly not sure what the difference is between a wife or co-wife? Presumably both share a loving commitment to having a life together regardless of their (not described) sexual situation.

jgnfld wrote:
Daryl wrote:... Her wife is a quadriplegic.

...


See, we do have gay marriage in the Honorverse!

Or perhaps you meant: "Co-wife". ;)
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Re: What I don't like
Post by Hans   » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:48 am

Hans
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:54 pm
Location: Stuttgart - Germany

Hello,

ok, first, I've read all but the Stephanie Harrington Books.
That D.W. not mentions LBGT is something I count on the positve side.
I've served with many gay and lesbian service members during the don't ask don't tell era. We all knew who they were and they were good at their job and patriotic. I've been very proud and privileged to have served with them.

This statement says exactly how we all should think about this
ok, personally I don't like patriotism, because it's blinding ourselfs - but again, that's another discussion).

The names:
There is Theismann, Henke....
On the other side Detweiler, Ottweiler, Asimonova, Kolkotsov.....
But it was just a feeling.
And when I read the name of the slavers station, which is Hungarian and the slavers names, which are mostly East European names, I had a bit a sour feeling bout this.
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Re: What I don't like
Post by Daryl   » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:04 am

Daryl
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Posts: 3499
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:57 am
Location: Queensland Australia

"That D.W. not mentions LBGT is something I count on the positve side." why Hans?

"personally I don't like patriotism, because it's blinding ourselves" how Hans?
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