"Marine Carrier"

I have just finished re-reading "Shadow of Freedom" and was struck by the repeating comments about the lack of Marines available for Frontier Space ground operations due to the increased automation of the latest generations of Manticoran Naval Vessels, and the consequent reduction in crew space now necessary.

This will probably apply also to the Havenite contributions to the new "Grand Alliance"

Is it not time now for the RMN to be developing and deploying the equivalent of the former HMS Bulwark, a Light Fleet carrier converted to a Commando Assault Ship?

Replace most, if not all, of the LACs with Marine Assault Shuttles and replace the "Air Wing" with Marines and their equipment.
Retain a Navy crew for Navigation, Engineering and Defence.


P.S I do not like, to put it mildly, the habit of reducing the various novel titles to an acronym. I find it confusing to say the least.

chrisd wrote:I have just finished re-reading "Shadow of Freedom" and was struck by the repeating comments about the lack of Marines available for Frontier Space ground operations due to the increased automation of the latest generations of Manticoran Naval Vessels, and the consequent reduction in crew space now necessary.

This will probably apply also to the Havenite contributions to the new "Grand Alliance"

Is it not time now for the RMN to be developing and deploying the equivalent of the former HMS Bulwark, a Light Fleet carrier converted to a Commando Assault Ship?

Replace most, if not all, of the LACs with Marine Assault Shuttles and replace the "Air Wing" with Marines and their equipment.
Retain a Navy crew for Navigation, Engineering and Defence.


P.S I do not like, to put it mildly, the habit of reducing the various novel titles to an acronym. I find it confusing to say the least.

The problem is twofold actually.

1) Because of the automation and the reduced number of Marines sent off in the new ships, when these ships encounter events that do need marines, they don't have them.
2) Because of the huge number of possible planets where they would need marines, there is going to be a shortage of them.

For #1, your solution is not practical. They don't know when such a need would arise.
For #2, as long as the number of marines hold up, it can be workable. But as I mentioned, there is going to be a shortage considering how big SL is and the number of planets they have to 'hold' to support their offensive vs the Solarian League.

chrisd wrote:Is it not time now for the RMN to be developing and deploying the equivalent of the former HMS Bulwark, a Light Fleet carrier converted to a Commando Assault Ship?

Well, as we know from the Jayne's excerpt in House of Steel, the RMN already has several dedicated Marine assault ship classes in service (The Guadalcanal and Rorke's Drift classes, as well as the planned LPX class.

So yeah, they're already doing exactly that.

P.S I do not like, to put it mildly, the habit of reducing the various novel titles to an acronym. I find it confusing to say the least.

As long as you realize that the acronyms are deeply ingrained in the discussions here, and that noone is obligated to accommodate your preferences, everything's fine.

As for holding captured planets, that's the job of the Army, not the Marines, at least in Manticoran service.

Dafmeister wrote:As for holding captured planets, that's the job of the Army, not the Marines, at least in Manticoran service.

The marines still have to hold on to newly captured planets until the army gets there. Considering the speed in which the navy can take away control of a planet from SL, there is no question that the marines are going to be stretched number wise.

Rakhmamort wrote:The marines still have to hold on to newly captured planets until the army gets there. Considering the speed in which the navy can take away control of a planet from SL, there is no question that the marines are going to be stretched number wise.

So? The Army is going to be stretched just as much. Hell, they were already stretched when they were fighting the Peeps. The Alliance is not remotely interested in trying to put garrisons in the League.

Rakhmamort wrote:

Dafmeister wrote:As for holding captured planets, that's the job of the Army, not the Marines, at least in Manticoran service.

The marines still have to hold on to newly captured planets until the army gets there. Considering the speed in which the navy can take away control of a planet from SL, there is no question that the marines are going to be stretched number wise.

Ultimately, a garrison is there to keep a conquered population in check, not to defend the system against enemy attack (only space units can do that).
So far, most if not all of the captured planets have been happy to see the back of OFS, so there's no need for an 'army of occupation' per se. In Meyers in particular, there's an established government with loyal security forces that can handle law and order. In other systems, that won't be the case, which is why the Talbot (how many t's?) Quadrant is going to be sending troops.

Mesa, on the other hand, is going to be another matter entirely. Bearing in mind that I've not read CoG yet, if Mike succeeds in taking the system, then she's going to have to keep the liberated slaves in check or there's likely to be a bloodbath.

Rakhmamort wrote:

Dafmeister wrote:As for holding captured planets, that's the job of the Army, not the Marines, at least in Manticoran service.

The marines still have to hold on to newly captured planets until the army gets there. Considering the speed in which the navy can take away control of a planet from SL, there is no question that the marines are going to be stretched number wise.

There is no evidence that Manticore intends to "hold on to newly captured planets" at all.

Potato wrote:

Rakhmamort wrote:The marines still have to hold on to newly captured planets until the army gets there. Considering the speed in which the navy can take away control of a planet from SL, there is no question that the marines are going to be stretched number wise.

So? The Army is going to be stretched just as much. Hell, they were already stretched when they were fighting the Peeps. The Alliance is not remotely interested in trying to put garrisons in the League.

They are not interested in doing that, well and good. But things never go as planned. They have the moral obligation to keep order in the planets that they 'liberate' from SL. Most likely there will be factions in the planets they are going to get, which means there is going to be fighting if not outright chaos once they kick out the League. Do you really think that RMN/GA is just going to leave a planet with millions if not billions of people going to hell in a handbasket because their only goal is to kick the OFS/SLN out?

The navy will cut thru any SLN force as quickly as a hot knife thru butter. With the army already stretched, detached marine units will take longer and longer to get relieved meaning the supply of marines with the frontline navy is going to get smaller and smaller.

Rakhmamort wrote:They are not interested in doing that, well and good. But things never go as planned. They have the moral obligation to keep order in the planets that they 'liberate' from SL. Most likely there will be factions in the planets they are going to get, which means there is going to be fighting if not outright chaos once they kick out the League. Do you really think that RMN/GA is just going to leave a planet with millions if not billions of people going to hell in a handbasket because their only goal is to kick the OFS/SLN out?

There is always going to be upheaval and score-settling going on once the OFS overlords are removed from the picture. And yes, there is an obligation on the part of the GA to make sure that newly liberated worlds do not go completely insane.

Which is why current policy, as of the latest books, seems to boil down to only liberating those systems that specifically ask to be liberated.
As the second Havenite War showed, the strategic thinking of the GA leadership is no longer concerned with system-by-system advances or securing flank coverage. As such, the number of systems that have to be attacked is reduced drastically, and as a result, the number of personnel needed for garrison duty reduced to much lower proportional levels than what was deemed necessary during the first Havenite war.

In addition, consider that among the GA, there's one Star Nation who kinda specializes in stabilizing planets. It's not like the RMN has to do the entire job alone, after all.